Still undecided on purchase...

[RMThompson]

Lower fstop numbers = a larger aperture (lens opening )= more light coming in = faster shutter speeds = better An f4.5 lens is considered relatively slow. The fastest zooms are usually around f2.8. Some lenses are more expensive but look at the Tamron 17-50 or Tamron 28-75 f2.8s. Well priced and sharp.

Prime lenses (fixed focal length lenses) are usually faster. Check out the 50mm f1.8 (very sharp and fast). Great for lower light photography.

If you don't know what aperture is, you really should not be shooting a wedding. Buy "Understanding Exposure" by Bryan Petersen.

Ugh. I completely understand what aperature is... I've helped others on this FORUM with it, and read alot about it. However I really don't appreciate your judgement on what I should or should NOT be shooting.

My confusion came with the stock lenses and their LOWER aperature at higher zoom, I had forgotten the number AFTER f/3.5.

Thanks for assuming though.

 

[usayit]

My two cents....

RMThompson.. I think it would be a whole lot easier if you take it one step at a time.

First decide on a DSLR body.. ignoring lens selection.

Second decide on a lens that fits that body and your needs... ignoring your search for the "best deal".

Third find the best deal on both of the items seperately.

Each and every link you have posted and your posts themselves are attempting to find the best body and lens at the best packaged deal. All you are doing is confusing yourself and limiting you choices. (Not to mention creating a confusing hard to follow thread.) Don't think of it as one purchase... think of it as two distinct purchases; lens then the body.

oh yeh.. Unless you already know what you want... ebay is about the worst source for your search.

Whatsup with all the posts with some link to ebay auction lately????

 

[RMThompson]

My two cents....

RMThompson.. I think it would be a whole lot easier if you take it one step at a time.

First decide on a DSLR body.. ignoring lens selection.

Second decide on a lens that fits that body and your needs... ignoring your search for the "best deal".

Third find the best deal on both of the items seperately.

Each and every link you have posted and your posts themselves are attempting to find the best body and lens at the best packaged deal. All you are doing is confusing yourself and limiting you choices. (Not to mention creating a confusing hard to follow thread.) Don't think of it as one purchase... think of it as two distinct purchases; lens then the body.

oh yeh.. Unless you already know what you want... ebay is about the worst source for your search.

Whatsup with all the posts with some link to ebay auction lately????

I guess I am just trying to find the best deal.

I know the body I want. Nikon D50. I can get the body for 449.00 at Ritz camera, assuming they will have any left.

So then I need to decide on a lens. Ideally I would purchase the 18-200mm VR lens from Nikon, but it's around 800 dollars AND you need at LEAST a D70 to use the VR function... so I need to find a solution in the 200 dollar pricerange if I still want to be able to purchase some sort of flash....

 

[EOS_JD]

Ugh. I completely understand what aperature is... I've helped others on this FORUM with it, and read alot about it. However I really don't appreciate your judgement on what I should or should NOT be shooting.

My confusion came with the stock lenses and their LOWER aperature at higher zoom, I had forgotten the number AFTER f/3.5.

Thanks for assuming though.

RMT I've read the rest of your posts and I apologise for assuming what I did.

However I would still maintain that you should not be shooting a wedding - especially without the right gear to do so. The reason I say this is not for you but for the couple who are getting married. It's their special day and although it might sound simple to take a few shots you really need to have a real grasp of why that max aperture and variable max apertures are bad when shooting a wedding.

To answer a little more of your question, f4.5 is not that small an aperture IF you are shooting in bright light outside or in the studio. At a wedding though, the important shots are generally indoors in a lowly lit church or registry office and then f4.5 is very VERYslow..... you will require to use flash and that's sometimes not permitted during ceremonies and even if it is allowed it can ruin the atmosphere of a shot unless the user knows all about using flash. i know my flash work is not the greatest so I use it generally just for fill.

Above, Mike stated f4.5 is only 1 stop faster than f2.8 which is correct but if I'm shooting at f2.8 ISO1600 and getting shutter speeds of around 1/30th to 1/60th sec that leaves you with shutter speeds around 1/15th to 1/30th sec at f4.5!!! Not ideal for sharp shots and especially not of people moving

Weddings are unlike any other type of photography. You absolutely must have fast glass with constant apertures. Another scenario. I'm shooting at f2.8 with 1/60th sec. i can zoom out and in and maintain that maximum aperture. Lets say with a 3.5-4.5 lens you have 1/40th therefore at f3.5 (which is very slow) and then you zoom out to 70mm suddenly you are now at f4.5 (because you r max aperture when zoomed has changed) and therefore and you've lost any chance of a sharp imnage as your shutter speed is now down to around 1/25th!! Exposure changes are bad when shooting weddings.

If you are looking at a lens with a variable max aperture, in the main these are therefore consumer grade lenses not very suitable for shooting weddings.

look at the Tamron 17-50 or 28-75. Both have a constant max aperture of f2.8 which is a minimu requirement for a wedding. It's also the fastest aperture of any EF fit zoom lens. Faster lenses are prime lenses - and it';s always handy to have one in your bag, especially the 50f1.8 which is cheap and does a reasonable job although not for pro's who will prefer the f1.4 or the new f1.2L.

Also what if your camera breaks do you have a backup? Do you have a backup flash and backup lenses? Ask any wedding pro and 100% will say you need backups (and some will have backups to their backups)!!

A friend of mine whjo was shooting a wedding called me the morning of it as her camera broke at the bride's house!! She had no backups.

RMT - I hope i'm more of a help than a hindrance. I want you to be the best prepared you can be. i know what it's like as I started out like you 9although i waited till i had the right equipment before comitting to a wedding).

Good luck and if I'm out of order again please let me know.

best regards
JD

 

[RMThompson]

RMT I've read the rest of your posts and I apologise for assuming what I did.

However I would still maintain that you should not be shooting a wedding - especially without the right gear to do so. The reason I say this is not for you but for the couple who are getting married. It's their special day and although it might sound simple to take a few shots you really need to have a real grasp of why that max aperture and variable max apertures are bad when shooting a wedding.

To answer a little more of your question, f4.5 is not that small an aperture IF you are shooting in bright light outside or in the studio. At a wedding though, the important shots are generally indoors in a lowly lit church or registry office and then f4.5 is very VERYslow..... you will require to use flash and that's sometimes not permitted during ceremonies and even if it is allowed it can ruin the atmosphere of a shot unless the user knows all about using flash. i know my flash work is not the greatest so I use it generally just for fill.

Above, Mike stated f4.5 is only 1 stop faster than f2.8 which is correct but if I'm shooting at f2.8 ISO1600 and getting shutter speeds of around 1/30th to 1/60th sec that leaves you with shutter speeds around 1/15th to 1/30th sec at f4.5!!! Not ideal for sharp shots and especially not of people moving

Weddings are unlike any other type of photography. You absolutely must have fast glass with constant apertures. Another scenario. I'm shooting at f2.8 with 1/60th sec. i can zoom out and in and maintain that maximum aperture. Lets say with a 3.5-4.5 lens you have 1/40th therefore at f3.5 (which is very slow) and then you zoom out to 70mm suddenly you are now at f4.5 (because you r max aperture when zoomed has changed) and therefore and you've lost any chance of a sharp imnage as your shutter speed is now down to around 1/25th!! Exposure changes are bad when shooting weddings.

If you are looking at a lens with a variable max aperture, in the main these are therefore consumer grade lenses not very suitable for shooting weddings.

look at the Tamron 17-50 or 28-75. Both have a constant max aperture of f2.8 which is a minimu requirement for a wedding. It's also the fastest aperture of any EF fit zoom lens. Faster lenses are prime lenses - and it';s always handy to have one in your bag, especially the 50f1.8 which is cheap and does a reasonable job although not for pro's who will prefer the f1.4 or the new f1.2L.

Also what if your camera breaks do you have a backup? Do you have a backup flash and backup lenses? Ask any wedding pro and 100% will say you need backups (and some will have backups to their backups)!!

A friend of mine whjo was shooting a wedding called me the morning of it as her camera broke at the bride's house!! She had no backups.

RMT - I hope i'm more of a help than a hindrance. I want you to be the best prepared you can be. i know what it's like as I started out like you 9although i waited till i had the right equipment before comitting to a wedding).

Good luck and if I'm out of order again please let me know.

best regards
JD

JD,

You certainly aren't a hinderance, I understand you are helping!

However I need to point out a few things.

I am an amatuer who has been, happily, thrust into this. I didn't SEEK anyone's wedding, I was suggested by a mutual friend. I explained to the Bride and Groom that I don't have the proper equipment, and in fact only own a Canon A610... They countered that if they don't hire me, it's going to be their mother-in-law with her handheld digital.

I did their engagement shots, for $50 bucks, with my Canon A610... and on the spot, before they SAW the pictures, they hired me for the wedding, and they LOVED the photos.

I almost turned it down, knowing my little Canon A610 couldn't handle it, but she explained that she REALLY wants someone there to be a photographer because this is a very special day for her, it's her second marraige after her first husband left her after they had a child with down syndrome. Her parents are both gone, and her child is going to be giving them away. She REALLY doesn't want just a relative, who might be too caught up in the moment to snap a photo, to be the only one capturing these moments.

So I decided I MUST make the DSLR purchase, if not for me, for them. They are counting on me to take pictures that they can have forever. I really want to get this right.

What I've boiled it down to is this:

D50 Body, some sort of 2.8 lens, and a flash. The problem is I only have 800 dollars MAXIMUM to spend. I already have 1.5 gigs of memory, so I only should need to get another gig, and I already have a tripod.

So I'm stuck. I cannot find a decent enough lens that allows me to purcahse a decent flash, and vice versa. I think, and I am sure I am right, the lens purcahse is more important.

I can get a D50 body for 449.00... so that leave 350 dollars for lens/flash. I don't think it's going to happen.

Hence eBay. I've seen used D50 bodies go for less than 300, but I don't know if I want to risk the chance of getting someone elses problem.

So thanks for the advice.... I certainly will keep it ALL in mind!

Ryan

p.s. Regardless of what you think, I AM shooting this wedding.

 

[BAB]

JD,

You certainly aren't a hinderance, I understand you are helping!

However I need to point out a few things.

I am an amatuer who has been, happily, thrust into this. I didn't SEEK anyone's wedding, I was suggested by a mutual friend. I explained to the Bride and Groom that I don't have the proper equipment, and in fact only own a Canon A610... They countered that if they don't hire me, it's going to be their mother-in-law with her handheld digital.

I did their engagement shots, for $50 bucks, with my Canon A610... and on the spot, before they SAW the pictures, they hired me for the wedding, and they LOVED the photos.

I almost turned it down, knowing my little Canon A610 couldn't handle it, but she explained that she REALLY wants someone there to be a photographer because this is a very special day for her, it's her second marraige after her first husband left her after they had a child with down syndrome. Her parents are both gone, and her child is going to be giving them away. She REALLY doesn't want just a relative, who might be too caught up in the moment to snap a photo, to be the only one capturing these moments.

So I decided I MUST make the DSLR purchase, if not for me, for them. They are counting on me to take pictures that they can have forever. I really want to get this right.

What I've boiled it down to is this:

D50 Body, some sort of 2.8 lens, and a flash. The problem is I only have 800 dollars MAXIMUM to spend. I already have 1.5 gigs of memory, so I only should need to get another gig, and I already have a tripod.

So I'm stuck. I cannot find a decent enough lens that allows me to purcahse a decent flash, and vice versa. I think, and I am sure I am right, the lens purcahse is more important.

I can get a D50 body for 449.00... so that leave 350 dollars for lens/flash. I don't think it's going to happen.

Hence eBay. I've seen used D50 bodies go for less than 300, but I don't know if I want to risk the chance of getting someone elses problem.

So thanks for the advice.... I certainly will keep it ALL in mind!

Ryan

p.s. Regardless of what you think, I AM shooting this wedding.

I agree with JD, he raises some very legitimate concerns and issues with regards to wedding photography. Having said that, I see that you have already expressed your limitations and concerns with the bride & groom which is a wise and honest approach on your part. It appears from your post that the couple is left with little choice and you are gracious enough to help them out. From your perspective I would avoid Ebay at this point in time. Instead find your best deal at a reputable local or mail order business (have you tried B&H) on the D50 that you have indicated is your choice and as already recomended in previous reply's, look at the Tamron or Sigma lenses, they offer a very good compromise from the Nikkor lenses and will serve you well for your purposes and allow you to progress and grow in photography. Good luck to you.

 

[EOS_JD]

JD,

You certainly aren't a hinderance, I understand you are helping!

However I need to point out a few things.

I am an amatuer who has been, happily, thrust into this. I didn't SEEK anyone's wedding, I was suggested by a mutual friend. I explained to the Bride and Groom that I don't have the proper equipment, and in fact only own a Canon A610... They countered that if they don't hire me, it's going to be their mother-in-law with her handheld digital.

I did their engagement shots, for $50 bucks, with my Canon A610... and on the spot, before they SAW the pictures, they hired me for the wedding, and they LOVED the photos.

I almost turned it down, knowing my little Canon A610 couldn't handle it, but she explained that she REALLY wants someone there to be a photographer because this is a very special day for her, it's her second marraige after her first husband left her after they had a child with down syndrome. Her parents are both gone, and her child is going to be giving them away. She REALLY doesn't want just a relative, who might be too caught up in the moment to snap a photo, to be the only one capturing these moments.

So I decided I MUST make the DSLR purchase, if not for me, for them. They are counting on me to take pictures that they can have forever. I really want to get this right.

What I've boiled it down to is this:

D50 Body, some sort of 2.8 lens, and a flash. The problem is I only have 800 dollars MAXIMUM to spend. I already have 1.5 gigs of memory, so I only should need to get another gig, and I already have a tripod.

So I'm stuck. I cannot find a decent enough lens that allows me to purcahse a decent flash, and vice versa. I think, and I am sure I am right, the lens purcahse is more important.

I can get a D50 body for 449.00... so that leave 350 dollars for lens/flash. I don't think it's going to happen.

Hence eBay. I've seen used D50 bodies go for less than 300, but I don't know if I want to risk the chance of getting someone elses problem.

So thanks for the advice.... I certainly will keep it ALL in mind!

Ryan

p.s. Regardless of what you think, I AM shooting this wedding.

Ryan
I know exactly the scenario although I was a little more fortunate that I could afford a Sigma 24-70 that I bought for the first wedding I did.

i appreciate the couple are happy you take the pictures and I'd say take along the A610 as a backup. you obviously know how to use this so if you struggle with the DSLR, use the A610.

Regards lenses, you could do without a zoom altogether and buy the 50mm f1.8. That is 2 stops faster than the zoom (4 x the shutter speed wide open)!!

Use your feet to zoom. On the D50 that would be the equivalent of a 75mm lens. Perfect portrait territory. Use this to capture wider ceremony images (if you are far back) and it's great for close up portraits. It's slightly different from a zoom but many swear by prime lenses. Generally lighter and sharper than even expensive zooms.

The good thing is the 50mm f1.8 is one of the cheapest lenses available to buy!!

The down side to using a DSLR is that you not only need to know lots about exposure, info on metering too is very useful. Do lots of reading and honestly buy that book "Understanding Exposure" I still refer to it. Great for explaining how to deal with a backlit subject or metering off white (like a wedding dress) and metering off black (like a tux).

The big issue you have to bear in mind is that they are counting on you! use the A610 if you know you can use it. learning to use a DSLR is tough at first. Do you have time to practice? I use my camera in Av much of the time. this is aperture priority which I use to control mainly the depth of field and also shutter speed. The higher fstops (saller apertures) show have a greater dof (more in focus). opening up the lens to f2.8 means very shallow depth of field so you blur backgrounds. A little more to it but reading Understanding Exposure will help you know what to use and when.

You could also use P mode which is like auto mode and allows you to select aperture and shutter speeds.

Can't you buy a second hand body? A rebel XTshould be less than $450!

Honestly I really hope it goes well and I feel your pain. i like to make sure the person knows what he's getting into (just in case he didn't ).

Where is the wedding taking place? Indoors / outdoors? Iin a Church / registry or hotel?

Hope this makes sense?

Regards
Jim

 

[JD in Socal]

...So I'm stuck. I cannot find a decent enough lens that allows me to purcahse a decent flash, and vice versa. I think, and I am sure I am right, the lens purcahse is more important.

I can get a D50 body for 449.00... so that leave 350 dollars for lens/flash. I don't think it's going to happen.
p.s. Regardless of what you think, I AM shooting this wedding.

Go to Calumet (http://www.calumetphoto.com/) and rent some good gear for the weekend. It will let you get your shots and will help you make some good decisions about what you ultimately buy. Its cheap for what you are getting and will save you money in the long run, because you won't buy the wrong stuff and have to replace it.

JD

 

[EOS_JD]

Go to Calumet (http://www.calumetphoto.com/) and rent some good gear for the weekend. It will let you get your shots and will help you make some good decisions about what you ultimately buy. Its cheap for what you are getting and will save you money in the long run, because you won't buy the wrong stuff and have to replace it.

JD

Why do I keep forgetting about that option

only problem with renting is that the OP needs to know the camera and its workings and only way to do this is use it lots!

Good option would be buy the DSLR and rent the 2.8 lens (or two if you can stretch) and rent a flash - If it's anything like the Canon flash I just shoot in manual mode with the flash on auto - watching the distance meter on the flash to make sure I'm in range.

 

[RMThompson]

Ryan
I know exactly the scenario although I was a little more fortunate that I could afford a Sigma 24-70 that I bought for the first wedding I did.

i appreciate the couple are happy you take the pictures and I'd say take along the A610 as a backup. you obviously know how to use this so if you struggle with the DSLR, use the A610.

Regards lenses, you could do without a zoom altogether and buy the 50mm f1.8. That is 2 stops faster than the zoom (4 x the shutter speed wide open)!!

Use your feet to zoom. On the D50 that would be the equivalent of a 75mm lens. Perfect portrait territory. Use this to capture wider ceremony images (if you are far back) and it's great for close up portraits. It's slightly different from a zoom but many swear by prime lenses. Generally lighter and sharper than even expensive zooms.

The good thing is the 50mm f1.8 is one of the cheapest lenses available to buy!!

The down side to using a DSLR is that you not only need to know lots about exposure, info on metering too is very useful. Do lots of reading and honestly buy that book "Understanding Exposure" I still refer to it. Great for explaining how to deal with a backlit subject or metering off white (like a wedding dress) and metering off black (like a tux).

The big issue you have to bear in mind is that they are counting on you! use the A610 if you know you can use it. learning to use a DSLR is tough at first. Do you have time to practice? I use my camera in Av much of the time. this is aperture priority which I use to control mainly the depth of field and also shutter speed. The higher fstops (saller apertures) show have a greater dof (more in focus). opening up the lens to f2.8 means very shallow depth of field so you blur backgrounds. A little more to it but reading Understanding Exposure will help you know what to use and when.

You could also use P mode which is like auto mode and allows you to select aperture and shutter speeds.

Can't you buy a second hand body? A rebel XTshould be less than $450!

Honestly I really hope it goes well and I feel your pain. i like to make sure the person knows what he's getting into (just in case he didn't ).

Where is the wedding taking place? Indoors / outdoors? Iin a Church / registry or hotel?

Hope this makes sense?

Regards
Jim

Jim,

That did make sense.

First to answer your questions (in reverse order):

1. It's taking place indoors, and a "Lion's Club" clubhouse ON the beach, but I believe the ceremony will be held OUTDOORS, at sunset of course, and the rest of the wedding will be inside and out, sort of free flowing.

2. I can get a D50 new for 450, so I don't think I am going to go the Canon route. I see some benefits with the Canon, like larger MP, but honestly I already have SD cards and I've actually used the D70s a bit.

3. I have from now until May 19th... so a little over 2 months to get used to the new camera.

So here is my new plan:

I am going to buy the D50 for 450, with a 50mm 1.8mm (where's a good price on this?) and a decent flash (not a Sb-600, but something generic probably)... then I am going to get more memory, a remote, some lens filters and anything else I am forgetting.

The only problem I foresee with ONLY using a 50mm 1.8 is the fact that I might need to get in close for the ceremony, and they probably don't want me to intrude. Since it will mostly be still, and on a tripod for this, I might consider getting a cheap 28-90 lens, even with the terrible f stops.

Then I can focus on getting a faster zoom lens for whatever the NEXT shoot will be.

I think that's the best. I can do the wedding in fixed focus if I have to, plus I do a LOT of portrait work and I could use the fixed focus lens there.

I think it's a solid plan, and I can get the camera, a 50mm lens and *hopefully* a flash for under 700.

Cameta Cameras is mostly an eBay seller, but they are an authorized Nortel seller and can sell me this:

D50 Refurbished unit
Nikon 50mm f/1.8
Nikon (refurb) 28-80 f3.5 - 5.6
Phoenix flash for Nikon
2 gig SD card
extra battery
---------------- 763.00

Seems decent, although I am going to try and price it all out seperatly at Ritz and other places to see if I can get it lower!

 

[EOS_JD]

Jim,

That did make sense.

First to answer your questions (in reverse order):

1. It's taking place indoors, and a "Lion's Club" clubhouse ON the beach, but I believe the ceremony will be held OUTDOORS, at sunset of course, and the rest of the wedding will be inside and out, sort of free flowing.

Use the 50mm lens and that only. Will blow away the other lens you are looking at for speed and sharpness. B&H is probably worth a look.

2. I can get a D50 new for 450, so I don't think I am going to go the Canon route. I see some benefits with the Canon, like larger MP, but honestly I already have SD cards and I've actually used the D70s a bit.

Makes sense. Keep the memory and use something you are familiar with. The extra MP isn't a big deal but the Canon images are slightly cleaner at higher ISOs. Not a huge issue to be fair.

3. I have from now until May 19th... so a little over 2 months to get used to the new camera.

Use it a lot between now and then!

So here is my new plan:

I am going to buy the D50 for 450, with a 50mm 1.8mm (where's a good price on this?) and a decent flash (not a Sb-600, but something generic probably)... then I am going to get more memory, a remote, some lens filters and anything else I am forgetting.

B&H for lenses are excellent. Buy a decent flash. Stretch the budget if you can. Look at Metz or Sigma too. I use a Sigma 500DG Super and it works well. You don't really need a remote or filters for weddings. I use the hoods to protect the glass.

The only problem I foresee with ONLY using a 50mm 1.8 is the fact that I might need to get in close for the ceremony, and they probably don't want me to intrude. Since it will mostly be still, and on a tripod for this, I might consider getting a cheap 28-90 lens, even with the terrible f stops.

D50 - $450
50mm f1.8 - $105
Flash circa $100

OK that's the basic but doesn't leave you a lot for another lens. Can't you rent? The 28-90 isn't very useful in low light. You'll need a high ISO to compensate. Even with the 50mm lens you'll probably need ISO 400.

Depending on the light though the 28-80 may not give fast enough shutter speeds - time will tell. You'll need 1/80th or 1/100th at 90mm to stop camera shake.

Then I can focus on getting a faster zoom lens for whatever the NEXT shoot will be.

If you just rented a faster zoom, you would save having to sell the 28-80 for a loss!

I think that's the best. I can do the wedding in fixed focus if I have to, plus I do a LOT of portrait work and I could use the fixed focus lens there.

Many people shoot a wedding with only primes. Not easy for a first but learn to move slowly so as not to disturb and remember in photoshop the crop tool is your friend. You can still get 10x8s from a largely cropped image. Do you know what sized images they want?

You could buy/rent an 85 f1.8 too and forget the zoom

I think it's a solid plan, and I can get the camera, a 50mm lens and *hopefully* a flash for under 700.

Cameta Cameras is mostly an eBay seller, but they are an authorized Nortel seller and can sell me this:

D50 Refurbished unit
Nikon 50mm f/1.8
Nikon (refurb) 28-80 f3.5 - 5.6
Phoenix flash for Nikon
2 gig SD card
extra battery
---------------- 763.00

Seems decent, although I am going to try and price it all out seperatly at Ritz and other places to see if I can get it lower!

Hope this helps?

Regards
Jim

PS I see you are in Florida! i have family in St Pete's and have been there a couple of times. Hoping to go back one day soon..... Need to earn more from photography though

 

[RMThompson]

PS I see you are in Florida! i have family in St Pete's and have been there a couple of times. Hoping to go back one day soon..... Need to earn more from photography though

Thanks for the tips. I probably will get the 50mm 1.8 for the wedding and something else for other shots I like to do... just because it's so cheap.

Oh, and I am in Saint Petersburg right now, it's where I work. Live in Largo!

I'll drive by and tell them hello! LOL

 

[EOS_JD]

HAha they're in very nice apartments there.

Is the pink Hotel still there?

 

[RMThompson]

HAha they're in very nice apartments there.

Is the pink Hotel still there?

Of course. In fact, I was just outside of it the other day... it's where I broke my foot!

We call it The Vinoy... Pink Hotel doesn't really sound classy! LOL

 

[EOS_JD]

Yes I remember that. I was in a small beach apartment on St Petes beach. Beautiful sunsets there.

Loved Tampa. Especially Busch Gardens.