Suggestion - Critique generating ring site feature

[snowbear]

In my case, this could force me to give C&C in areas out of my comfort zone (a good thing.)

 

[fjrabon]

This last is a good to great idea.

If you want/expect criticism, give one and leave a link.

Thanks Lew

I think a key would be simply making it easy for the person you're responding to able to quickly find your posts, while removing the idea that doing so is 'tacky' or presumptuous by declaration. I know I'd often be more than happy to critique anybody who comments on my photos, but I usually simply don't see any of their posts. I guess I could go and look them up via search, but I think this would work well because of how easy it makes it. It also allows the critic to choose what photos that they want critiqued instead of me dredging up some random that they either may not want critique or already has a lot. I know a lot of times I'll post one photo that generates 3-4 pages of conversation, and then another that falls into the abyss like a stone. And a lot of times the one that generates the most conversation is the one that I was just happy with, but was mostly ambivalent towards critique, because I would change very little in it, while the photo that I genuinely wanted to take the temperature of, and figure out how to improve, gets no commentary at all. Here I could guide critique where I wanted.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Alternatively, if you want/expect criticism, make a thread.

 

[PixelRabbit]

I find it interesting, the need to create a mechanism to "force" critique, while there are so many threads that need critiqueing right now.

JUST
DO
IT!​

I feel doing this will create another clique, and will hurt members here not involved.

I half agree with you, I'm as guilty as anyone else for not critiquing as much as I probably should and I should start just doing it. The problem is everyone has the opportunity to just do it now and we simply aren't nor can we meet the needs of everyone posting for C&C, there is still room for improvement.

I can only speak from my own experience, it has taken me a year with a LOT of time dedicated to photography to start to feel comfortable enough in my own skin to piece together my opinion on my own work let alone anyone elses, I'm glad to be at the end(ish) of the process but it could have just as easily turned into a rut that I didn't know how to get past.

I feel like I have been very lucky here at TPF and have received great feedback along the way and even got value out of the images I have posted that got zero feedback, but, I can totally understand how a different person may not be able to figure out why they aren't getting the C&C they want, if any at all. Something like this may even provide an avenue for people to get access to the specific people they want to get C&C from. I remember many times wishing "person X" would comment and I felt like I achieved something when they did eventually come and give me input on my work.

You are right, even now without structure there are cliques of people who pretty much consistently C&C each others work and there will be within any structure such as suggested here BUT I think it also provides the opportunity to ensure feedback on your own work if you put in the effort to give feedback as well as give access to people you may look up to or wish to gain knowledge from who are also participating.

 

[Overread]

I find it interesting, the need to create a mechanism to "force" critique, while there are so many threads that need critiqueing right now.

JUST
DO
IT!​

I feel doing this will create another clique, and will hurt members here not involved.

If only "Just do it" was enough.

That said you raise an important point with regarding to hurting members who choose not to take part. That said the scheme also leaves the window potentially open for any serious user who wants to take part - they'd just have to make a thread and then be willing to put their own time into contributing their own critique to a member(s) of the ring and instantly they are inside.

Clique will happen - social human nature will ensure they exist so I don't see any reason to try and avoid them. Where they cause no problems they are a core part of any multi-social group site so best to involve that element into things.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Why not just use the "Group" function of the forum then. All the Very Serious People could use it and get what they are looking for, from each other. It would essentially be a critique sub-forum, of a forum designed for free and open critique.

 

[PixelRabbit]

Why not just use the "Group" function of the forum then. All the Very Serious People could use it and get what they are looking for, from each other. It would essentially be a critique sub-forum, of a forum design for free and open critique.

Out of sight out of mind.

 

[PixelRabbit]

Bitter, may I ask, are you happy with the feedback you get on your pictures here or do you think that there is room for improvement?

If you are happy with the feedback and feel you get everything you want/need at this moment in time that is awesome, I'm very close to that myself

I think that this can potentially help those who aren't getting what they want/need and can't for whatever reason figure out what's wrong.

Some people thrive on more structure to learn and this can give people that option.

It won't be for everyone but I think it can potentially help some.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Yes, I am happy with the feedback I get. Even if it's one or three replies. Even if it's an "I like it" or "I don't like it" or more in depth commentary.

I think average photos get fewer or no replies, and that tells me something.

I also see that the time of posting matters. Some things slip through the cracks just because of the traffic here at that time. People often bump their threads, and then they get responses.

I shoot for fun. I just like making things. I like showing them, and hearing what people think. You don't get that in a gallery.

I think people shouldn't rely solely on the critique here for learning beyond the technical. Creativity comes from within. You do it for yourself, to make yourself happy. You are honing your vision. I think a lot more learning comes from studying others work, making judgements for yourself, and striving for it in your own work if it apeals to you, or avoiding what you don't like. But this "art" should come from you, and not be tailored to the crowd. The crowd can be wrong. The crowd judges from their own perspective, from their own style, from their own viewpoint. I rarely critique portraits, because thats not what I am into. I rarely speak on street photography, because I find so little of it compelling. Same with landscapes. I find them boring.

So much can be learned from study of those who came before us. I get a sense from what I see here, very few people do that. I get the sense that a majority of the people here are relying on TPF for their education. I get the sense from some fairly regular posters, that they never bother reading other peoples threads. This forum, and internet critique is what it is. It's free. It's voluntary. It's from a wide range of skill levels, with more at the bottom and middle, than from the top. You take what you can get, and appreciate it for what it is.

So it's my feelings that creating "critique rings" just odd. Like I said, it is "forcing" critique, which should be coming naturally, and willingly, anyway! The gallery section is for showing work, and getting critique. So instead of creating mechanisms to force critique is just odd to me. Just go out there and comment on peoples images! They are there, ready, waiting to hear what you think.

This is my opinion. Someone can feel free to berate me for it.

 

[The_Traveler]

Yes, I am happy with the feedback I get. Even if it's one or three replies. Even if it's an "I like it" or "I don't like it" or more in depth commentary.

I think average photos get fewer or no replies, and that tells me something.

Others, many of them, seem not to be happy with what responses they get.
Why not let them work for a situation in which they get what they want?

Is your assumption is that your pictures are better because you get more responses?
It actually seems to me the reverse, that often the more defective the shot, the more response because anyone can see the problems.

You are absolutely free to have your own opinion, and constantly press it because that what you have been doing.
Others have their own.

 

[PixelRabbit]

Yes, I am happy with the feedback I get. Even if it's one or three replies. Even if it's an "I like it" or "I don't like it" or more in depth commentary.

I think average photos get fewer or no replies, and that tells me something.

I also see that the time of posting matters. Some things slip through the cracks just because of the traffic here at that time. People often bump their threads, and then they get responses.I shoot for fun. I just like making things. I like showing them, and hearing what people think. You don't get that in a gallery. I think people shouldn't rely solely on the critique here for learning beyond the technical. Creativity comes from within. You do it for yourself, to make yourself happy. You are honing your vision. I think a lot more learning comes from studying others work, making judgements for yourself, and striving for it in your own work if it apeals to you, or avoiding what you don't like. But this "art" should come from you, and not be tailored to the crowd. The crowd can be wrong. The crowd judges from their own perspective, from their own style, from their own viewpoint. I rarely critique portraits, because thats not what I am into. I rarely speak on street photography, because I find so little of it compelling. Same with landscapes. I find them boring.

So much can be learned from study of those who came before us. I get a sense from what I see here, very few people do that. I get the sense that a majority of the people here are relying on TPF for their education. I get the sense from some fairly regular posters, that they never bother reading other peoples threads. This forum, and internet critique is what it is. It's free. It's voluntary. It's from a wide range of skill levels, with more at the bottom and middle, than from the top. You take what you can get, and appreciate it for what it is.
So it's my feelings that creating "critique rings" just odd. Like I said, it is "forcing" critique, which should be coming naturally, and willingly, anyway! The gallery section is for showing work, and getting critique. So instead of creating mechanisms to force critique is just odd to me. Just go out there and comment on peoples images! They are there, ready, waiting to hear what you think.

This is my opinion. Someone can feel free to berate me for it.

Thanks for your thoughts Bitter.
I'm on board with you up to the last paragraph I still think that there is a large part of the community that it might work very well for.

I think your words will ring true with many, but out of those only a few will actually immerse themselves that deeply into developing and growing as a photographer.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Thanks for your thoughts Bitter.
I'm on board with you up to the last paragraph I still think that there is a large part of the community that it might work very well for.

I think your words will ring true with many, but out of those only a few will actually immerse themselves that deeply into developing and growing as a photographer.

Thanks for questioning my opinion, without making me feel like I am not allowed to.

 

[The_Traveler]

Thanks for questioning my opinion, without making me feel like I am not allowed to.

You really need to set yourself up as being picked on, I don't know why that is.

I used to think a lot better of you.
I was wrong.


Make both of us happy, I'll ignore you and you can continue to ignore me.

 

[sm4him]

I'm kinda with Bitter here, although I do applaud any efforts to get MORE people critiquing MORE threads. For me personally--I don't have Bitter's self-confidence in my creations, so I admit that *sometimes* when my thread dies a lonely, neglected death, despite being a photo I was rather fond of, I suspect it must have fallen farther short than I thought, and decide that I must be a complete failure as a photographer and a person. Okay, that's not even the least bit true--but I AM left wondering WHY that thread died--was the picture BAD? Or just not anything of note? Or was it bad timing--Did I post when there were too many other threads out there drawing attention, or when too many people were away from the computer? Should I bump it or let it die??
I LIKE getting the feedback; it has helped me progress more in the past year or so, I believe, than in probably five years before that (okay, the DSLR may have helped too...and the better lenses...and not having kids at home...)

To that end, I've been trying to do more C&C myself, and for a wider variety of posters. It's not that "comfortable" for me, giving C&C, but I do feel that if I want feedback on my own stuff, I need to give it to others. Plus, I've learned so much, from so many very experienced, knowledgeable folks here, that I'd like to help "carry that torch" just a little.

The critique ring idea? To be honest, it kinda makes my head hurt. It sounds a lot more complicated than what I currently do, which is to make an effort to give several C&Cs a day so that when I post my own photos, maybe someone will do the same for me. If I had to actually keep track somehow of who had C&C'ed my stuff, and who I needed to C&C...ugh. That starts to sound like work. And I don't LIKE to work. So I might just stop doing it altogether. Just being honest here.
Not to mention that there are exactly two people here for whom I will NOT give critique nor really respond to in any way. If one of them C&C my photo in a critique ring, I *still* wouldn't do it for them in return. And here ya'll thought I was the responsible, mature one. :lmao: Sometimes, my buttons just get pushed too far...

 

[PixelRabbit]

Yes, I am happy with the feedback I get. Even if it's one or three replies. Even if it's an "I like it" or "I don't like it" or more in depth commentary.

I think average photos get fewer or no replies, and that tells me something.

Others, many of them, seem not to be happy with what responses they get.
Why not let them work for a situation in which they get what they want?

Is your assumption is that your pictures are better because you get more responses?
It actually seems to me the reverse, that often the more defective the shot, the more response because anyone can see the problems.

You are absolutely free to have your own opinion, and constantly press it because that what you have been doing.
Others have their own.

Thanks for questioning my opinion, without making me feel like I am not allowed to.

You really need to set yourself up as being picked on, I don't know why that is.

I used to think a lot better of you.
I was wrong.


Make both of us happy, I'll ignore you and you can continue to ignore me.

I dunno Lew, you kinda proved his point a bit here, it's obvious that you guys don't see eye to eye, you are both very comfortable in what you believe around photography and I love that passion in both of you (yes I used passion!!). Unfortunately after this short exchange I have to agree with the bolded