Taking a corporate group portrait of 100

[photop]

The group portrait will be taken in a banquet room. Does anyone have any tips on how to light this group of 100 business people and what lens please? The shoot isn't until August. Is there a course or tutorial out there about this? Many thanks!

 

[smoke665]

I've never shot a group that large, maybe 20-25 at most. Your questions are putting the cart before the horse as there are multiple questions/problems to be resolved first. Before the day you need to visit the location and develop a written plan for the shoot.

You say it's a banquet room, what type of room is it? Long and narrow, high/low ceilings, what color are they (can you use them to reflect light)? Is there sufficient room to pose a group that large(side to side, in front of the background, in front of the subject)? Will you need to bring in a background? Will you have to move tables, chairs, etc to accommodate a large group?

With a group that large it's a given you'll need one or more people to assist, having a written plan makes it easier to delegate who does what. The more you can consolidate the group the better. Are there stairs, stage or other elevated platform that you can use, will you need chairs to seat some? Is there a location outside the banquet room that would better accomadate a large group shot, and allow you the opportunity to set up ahead of time. Part of your job as the photographer is to minimize the distraction to the group.

Once you have your plan in place and know the parameters of the shoot it will be clear what you need to capture the shot.

 

[photop]

Yes, for sure! Thank you for your input! I do understand knowing these logistics are necessary. My question is a general one for sure. I saw one behind the scenes shoot of about 100 people where the photographer was on the balcony and eveyone gathered in the lobby of the hotel. I saw how the lights were used in this instance, being bounced off the ceiling and it seemed staight forward to me. So I'm just turning my attention to lighting in a banquet room now and was looking for some input as to how some went about it. I'm already currently looking for answers to all of the above questions. Looking for ideas on lighting in this forum is just part of my overall research and the answers/input I get here would certainly help me to decide where to put the group.

 

[smoke665]

Looking for ideas on lighting in this forum is just part of my overall research and the answers/input I get here would certainly help me to decide where to put the group.

Lighting requirements are a combination of subjective and objective decision. We all have our own personal favorites, but in a situation like this the setup is objective, it requires factual data. In your balcony example the photographer made a decision based on the location, that may or may not work for your location. Remember I asked about ceilings/walls? White walls, ceilings make great reflectors producing soft even lighting. Off white or colored walls/ceiling will drive you crazy with unwanted tints. Lighting a subject is combination of additive (putting light on the subject) or subtractive (blocking light from the subject) in the case of preventing unwanted tints you'll need to use more directed light that doesn't bounce around the room. Things like gridded softboxes, Octaboxes will keep the light restricted. Large black V flats will block tinted reflections. I know there's a tendency to search for a generalized answer, but you have a specific requirement. The point is you can shoot the group wherever you want and once you have that, light accordingly.

One thing not mentioned in the previous post, is with a large group in a tight space you may have to shoot segments of the group and combine post. Again that's a decision based on scouting the location and formulating your plan ahead of time.

 

[photop]

Yes, thank you for that! What you've said is great. I do understand all of this and am not looking to just copy what other are doing. Just looking into all possibilities and gathering input from any who would like to share how they went about lighting a group this size or can direct me to a tutorial to help broaden my knowledge.

Has anyone out there shot an indoor group this size and would like to share their thought process about that particular job?

 

[Nevermore1]

The group portrait will be taken in a banquet room. Does anyone have any tips on how to light this group of 100 business people and what lens please? The shoot isn't until August. Is there a course or tutorial out there about this? Many thanks!

I can’t provide much input as to the actual photo taking process as I’ve never shot a large group before. I work in a hotel and wanted to mention to keep in mind that if you visit the venue beforehand the lighting may be different than it will be at the event depending on what the event organizers request so be sure to ask if there will be someone from the facilities banquet or A/V team there who can adjust the lights for you if needed. Also, if you think you may need a step stool or small ladder to gain height to get the shot in be sure to bring your own. Many facilities will not allow non-employees to use theirs as it can turn into a liability issue for them (even if they tell you that you can use theirs when you visit, it may be someone else working at the time of the event).

 

[photop]

Yes, for sure! Good advice! I'm trying my best to be over prepared...part of the reason I'm posting to this forum....

 

[smoke665]

I do understand all of this and am not looking to just copy what other are doing.

Not to be difficult but what are you trying to do? What is your current knowledge of lighting? What is your experience level with photography? You keep asking generalized questions that make me wonder where you actually need help.

Lighting a scene (ambient or supplemental) isn't rocket science but it does require a certain basic understanding. A good place to start if you don't have the basics is "Light Science and Magic: An Introduction to Photographic Lighting". Your local library might have it or you can find it online used for less than $20.

As to videos I'd suggest the first stop would be Google.

 

[ac12]

Since you have not done this before . . .
Once you figure it out, do multiple dry runs.

Set up a group of people/friends/co-workers/etc. and test it, as close to the actual setting as you can.
You WILL find problems that you had not thought of before. And you will need time to solve those problems.

 

[photop]

I do have several years of experience in different kinds of photography but the biggest group I've done is about 40 and in a tight dark space. I used two power lights bounced out of large umbrellas with the ceiling barely tall enough to get the umbrellas up high enough. With 100 people it seems like instead of bouncing lights out of umbrellas I should bounce them out off the ceiling and of course, in a bigger area, IF the ceiling is white, as you mentioned earlier, to get a bigger spread of light. I do have two godox 300 lights as well. One of my concerns is getting the light to reach the people at the back. The venue is in another town so I need to make the trip there to sort out the particulars you mentioned earlier. Depending on what people involved have to say, I'll know what my options are. In the meantime, I just wanted to see what others had to say about their own experience in handling this kind of situation. I've definitely been googling but the only thing I found is the behind the scenes video I mentioned earlier where the photographer had everyone gathered in the foyer, he was on balcony and bounced his lights off the white cieling.

 

[smoke665]

biggest group I've done is about 40 and in a tight dark space. I used two power lights bounced out of large umbrellas with the ceiling barely tall enough to get the umbrellas up high enoug

Okay now we have a start. Portrait lighting defines the structure of the face/body by creating shadows. Hard light (smaller in relation to the subject) will create hard edge shadow with little transition. Soft light (larger in relation to the subject) will wrap around the subject creating a softer transition.

Bouncing off a wall or ceiling will create a "larger/softer" light, but you have to contend with the Inverse Square Law. Light intensity doesn't fall off in a linear transition, initially it drops like a rock then levels out as the distance increases. As in your example you were able to use a lower power light sources because the ceiling was low. If the ceiling or walls are high two 300ws lights are going to be way underpowered, if you plan on bouncing.

One of my concerns is getting the light to reach the people at the bac

A valid concern, obviously you'll need to consolidate the group into rows. What's you plan 3 rows? 4 rows? Any possibility of the venue having or know a place you can rent risers? Placing your group on different levels will minimize your concern. In order to keep the shadows off the background you'll need at least 6', then the depth of the group and distance to camera. Will you have enough room?

Another concern is setup, I shot some events where the attendees took offense to my lights, equipment, etc. blocking their view. Now I incorporate those concerns into my shoot plan.

If I had the room and a way to get them on different levels, I'd probably consider (2) 800ws strobes in 2x4 Soft boxes, placed on opposing sides at about 45 degrees, feathering them and using falloff to evenly light to the center of group. It's going to be hard to do a real life practice, but you can get a general idea. One of the concerns I'd have is DOF and FOV. In order to get everyone in focus you'll need to maintain a smaller aperture. I would prefer not using less than a 50mm focal length because of facial distortion, but on a crop sensor, that will limit your FOV to just under 10' assuming you're 20' away from the group. The same criteria on a full frame would give you just over 14' FOV. One option you might look at (assuming you have the room) is posing in a slight arc which would minimize the FOV, but increase the concern with DOF. Using this method you could pose everyone on the same level, and use a ladder to shoot down on the group.

 

[pendennis]

If you can arrange medical leave, I'd do it.

Otherwise, you need to hire someone who has expertise in shooting large groups. The lighting alone is tricky, and most folks don't have the 2400-4800ws of lighting needed. That, and the need for risers, scrims, etc. call for someone who has professional experience, and isn't guessing their way through the job.

Even if you could rent the necessary gear, you need to practice the set-up, test lighting, etc. You also have to consider the possibility of equipment failure, especially in lighting, and have necessary back-ups.

 

[smoke665]

@pendennis agree with you. Just did some rough calculations in my head on the possible width/depth of the group. I'm not sure it's really feasible to shoot in a limited space, with limited lighting in one shot. This might be better suited to an earlier suggestion on breaking the group into segments and combining post.

Not mentioned so far is insurance......especially if you're using risers. With a large group like this there's a significant risk that someone will fall.

Your suggestion to bring in someone who's experienced, has the equipment, and resources sounds better by the minute.

 

[ac12]

I do have several years of experience in different kinds of photography but the biggest group I've done is about 40 and in a tight dark space. I used two power lights bounced out of large umbrellas with the ceiling barely tall enough to get the umbrellas up high enough. With 100 people it seems like instead of bouncing lights out of umbrellas I should bounce them out off the ceiling and of course, in a bigger area, IF the ceiling is white, as you mentioned earlier, to get a bigger spread of light. I do have two godox 300 lights as well. One of my concerns is getting the light to reach the people at the back. The venue is in another town so I need to make the trip there to sort out the particulars you mentioned earlier. Depending on what people involved have to say, I'll know what my options are. In the meantime, I just wanted to see what others had to say about their own experience in handling this kind of situation. I've definitely been googling but the only thing I found is the behind the scenes video I mentioned earlier where the photographer had everyone gathered in the foyer, he was on balcony and bounced his lights off the white cieling.

geez, it would have been nice if you said that before.
Rather than us thinking you have ZERO experience, and trying to address a total novice.

DO A SITE SURVEY !!!
You cannot plan if you have no idea of what the environment looks like.
You would be going in blind, and having to figure things out on the spot. That is a setup for failure, if you do not have the experience.
If the shoot is going to be IN the banquette room, is there enough open space? You may have to shoot the group with the tables in front of them. Or will the hotel staff move the tables to clear out a space? Or ???
Maybe you have to find another place in the hotel to shoot the pic.
etc.

Do you KNOW how wide a 50, 33 and 25 person row is?
You cannot set up a group shoot, if you cannot fit the people into the space.
If you setup on stairs, and then find you can only fit 8 on a stair, you will have 13 rows!!

How far are you going to be?
The more rows you have, the farther you need to be, to minimize the apparent size difference from the first to last row. And the lighting will be more difficult.
The WIDER the group, the farther you need to be, to minimize the apparent size difference from the middle to ends of the row. You could arc the group, but as was mentioned, you have to understand DoF.

Lighting the back row(s).
Light stands for your lights and risers for the people.
If this is a corporate event and the company wants the pictures, they can rent the risers.

 

[smoke665]

DO A SITE SURVEY !!!
You cannot plan if you have no idea of what the environment looks like.

I suspect that most of us would scout the location "before" we even agreed to the shoot!