Taking pictures in shutter speed priority mode

[belial]

Agree with buck and overread. I never said priority modes were exactly the same thing. I was just specifying that you can use them and still maintain full control. The modes I use are manual and both priority modes. I make a choice based on my needs at that moment and if those needs change in a scene so does the mode I'm on.

 

[bratkinson]

After reading through the above, I come away with the opinions that even while in AV or TV mode and even M or B, one still has some degree of control over the rest of the triangle. I “mostly” disagree, “mostly” on the reason that different cameras allow/do things differently.

To wit:
Back in my film days, starting with the Canon AE-1, when shooting Av, I set the aperture, and the camera selected the shutter speed. Period. ASA (ISO), was ‘locked in’ by the film loaded in the camera. Conversely, in Tv, the camera picked the aperture. Filters in front of the lens affected the metering, which then affected the choices the camera made. I believe exposure compensation was available as well, if I recall. EC ‘could have’ been used to increase/decrease exposure based on what the camera chose. I just never used it as most of my shooting back then was outdoors, and mostly daylight.

Spin forward to my early digital years with point n shoot Canon G-3 and later G-5. I frequently shot in Av and Tv, to suit my needs. I presume the camera picked its’ own choice of ISO speeds and whatever else it wanted. I didn’t really care, as I got the shots I wanted at the aperture or shutter speed I wanted.

Today, with my 60D, I have to confess, there’s more ways the camera can do as it wants in addition to my settings. There’s such a myriad of variables to consider these days, and, unless individually, manually set beforehand, the camera will choose as it pleases. Consider high school algebra, with 10 variables, when added/subntracted/divided/multiplied together, result in the ‘constant’ value of 100, for example. Changing any of them, will result in one or more of the others to change as well, to give the calculation result of 100. Now substitute ‘camera settings’ in place of ‘variables’. Hence, shutter speed, aperture, ISO, exposure compensation, white balance setting, auto lighting optimizer, lens peripheral illumination correction, highlight tone priority, color space, and even creative filters ALL are part of the ‘calculation’ the camera must make to come up with ‘the correct’ exposure. The above list directly from page 276 of the Canon 60D manual, here http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/9/0300004019/03/eos60d-im3-c-en.pdf . Now throw in flash settings/ettl/lens corrections/who knows what into the mix, to REALLY get your head spinning!

Consider that other cameras in the Canon DSLR family each have ‘their own’ software to determine the final settings/calculations each time the shutter is opened. And, Nikon has their ‘own’, as does Sony, etc, etc, etc.

Bottom line, in my opinion, unless one manually ‘locks down’ each and every one of the camera-unique exposure-setting variables, the camera will always end up ‘choosing’ what it wants from what IT still can control. Big Brother has arrived!

 

[Buckster]

Exposure is controlled by just three things: ISO, aperture and shutter speed. That's why it's called the exposure triangle. If you can control all three things, you have control of exposure.

 

[bratkinson]

Buckster -

Thank You for the "whack upside the head"! I needed that! Really!

What I was thinking about above is what gets recorded on the JPG (subject to in-camera software algorithms), rather than on the RAW. In M mode, all 3 sides of the exposure triangle ARE under your control. Everything else can be adjusted in post working with the RAW image.

I guess I haven't yet "fully" adapted to RAW mode thinking, yet.

 

[Buckster]

Buckster -

Thank You for the "whack upside the head"! I needed that! Really!

What I was thinking about above is what gets recorded on the JPG (subject to in-camera software algorithms), rather than on the RAW. In M mode, all 3 sides of the exposure triangle ARE under your control. Everything else can be adjusted in post working with the RAW image.

Same thing with "A" and "T" modes, which has been the point of the discussion.

I guess I haven't yet "fully" adapted to RAW mode thinking, yet.

RAW or JPG is irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[Infidel]

As you just said it ends up being the exact same thing. Using EC there is no difference between manual and priority mode other than priority modes are faster. There os absolutely no gain from manual modes over priority modes other than ego.

Agree with buck and overread. I never said priority modes were exactly the same thing. I was just specifying that you can use them and still maintain full control. The modes I use are manual and both priority modes. I make a choice based on my needs at that moment and if those needs change in a scene so does the mode I'm on.

Aside from falsely attributing the statement to me, you DID say they were the exact same thing. FWIW, I can spin the dial on my d40 in program automatic mode and select different aperture and shutter speed combinations...coupled with exposure comp, is program automatic therfore the exact same thing as manual?

 

[Overread]

I guess I haven't yet "fully" adapted to RAW mode thinking, yet.

RAW or JPG is irrelevant to the discussion.

I think what Bratkinson is referring to are some of the new auto editing features present in cameras. Things like dynamic light control and other settings which can adjust the final output of a JPEG to some extent (eg modes that change the edge brightness levels to reduce vignetting). These can confuse people a little - but for RAW work they are not an issue as they will only affect the LCD jpeg image. I generally just turn them all off as well.

 

[Kerbouchard]

This is what I'm saying and my main contention. I don't see where you lose any control to priority modes. If someone shows me how I truly lose control I'll switch permanently

Use Shutter priority. Get three pieces of paper. A white piece, a grey piece, and a black piece. Take a shot of each filling the frame with the piece of paper. All 3 will look identical. They will all be grey. The light didn't change, but the camera will choose very different settings.

For some of us, that inconsistency is enough for us to want to take full control of the settings. When shooting vastly different subjects in the same light, Shutter Priority is much slower and will lead to a lot of inconsistency. Honestly, while I do use manual most of the time, I do occasionally use Aperture Priority as well. On the other hand, I think shutter priority is just about useless.

 

[Overread]

Shutter priority tends to get used less because aperture and depth of field is normally the prime requirement for most shots. However when I've shot planes with rotor blades it was shutter priority all the way. Same if you want to pan a shot at a certain shutter speed.

As for the exposure Kerb - it really depends how you meter a shot. If you are using the built in camera meter to read the light from the scene directly then no matter what mode you are in on the camera you will have to adjust the exposure based upon the subject in certain conditions. Be that simply setting settings in manual to under/over expose from the meter reading or using exposure compensation to do likewise in the priority modes.
Now if you're using an external light meter to read the ambient light or you're using other methods or meter reading off points not directly in the scene/the same as the AF point used - then yes the cameras meter will be - at the time of the shot - of less use and thus manual mode will be superior.

 

[belial]

Aside from falsely attributing the statement to me, you DID say they were the exact same thing. FWIW, I can spin the dial on my d40 in program automatic mode and select different aperture and shutter speed combinations...coupled with exposure comp, is program automatic therfore the exact same thing as manual?

Program mode is considered a semi auto. I don't like it because I feel you're giving the camera too much creative control though. But you still maintain full control of exposure even in program mode.

 

[belial]

Aside from falsely attributing the statement to me, you DID say they were the exact same thing. FWIW, I can spin the dial on my d40 in program automatic mode and select different aperture and shutter speed combinations...coupled with exposure comp, is program automatic therfore the exact same thing as manual?

As for priority modes you retain creative control and exposure control. What other control is there that you desire?

 

[Infidel]

Program mode is considered a semi auto. I don't like it because I feel you're giving the camera too much creative control though. But you still maintain full control of exposure even in program mode.

Explain.