TFCD Question

[Lynnzora]

Well I've been building up my portfolio and I've used various models on Model Mayhem also looking to build their portfolios as well. The deal is that directly following the photoshoot I'll give them the full photoshoot on a DVD... untouched images... I tell them that they can choose 5 for me to retouch. I'll email them the small files to use for their websites MM, Myspace, facebook, etc... Then I send them a CDR with those retouched images... big files so they can make prints.

Now I recently did a male model. He's trying to find representation and wanted to take advantage of the TFCD with me after seeing my work. Well I got some really great shots of him. He threw them up on Model Mayhem... Really not giving any credit... Those who are familiar with MM... there's a spot where you can include the photographers name, etc... He left that off. The only reason why someone would know I took the photo is because I did actually put my company's name on the photo. He got ton of hits and comments... He called me requesting to use two of my photos for his portfolio... HOWEVER he wants me to leave my logo off. What do you think?? Would you do it?

I'm by no means a long time professional... I'm working on it though. That's why I'm still doin TFCD... However, I do put a lot of effort into my work... Hummm I'm just wonder would you guys do it?

 

[SpeedTrap]

Just ask him for the credit on Model Mayhem,, When doing a TFCD or TFP You should be giving a copy without logos for portfolio or there was no value to the model to do the shoot for free for you.

 

[Rich Ardt]

You should make it clear to the models before the shoot that when they post the images online it should be clearly credited to you. But when including the images in a portfolio it's a bit different. I have never seen a photographer being credited on a model's comp card or in a portfolio.

I think in this case just be diplomatic, allow the use of the images in his portfolio without credit, but let him know that the images on MM should be credited. Obviously this guy is full of himself and without compassion. Typical sometimes...

I also don't think you should allow the models all images of the shoots any more. If you are heading into becoming "pro" you should start developing a self-respect and a pride in your work which allows only your edits to be seen by the world. And start thinking about getting paid. Set up paperwork such as model releases and terms which state which can and cannot be done with the images.

 

[Lynnzora]

Thanks for your advice... I actually have seen in tiny tiny letters at the bottom.... example "Copyright 2009: Sweet Reign Images"

I do have respect for myself and my work. I think that's why it's an issue... And I think it was fueled when I saw he didn't give me credit on MM. I would think he would understand the importance of that because supposedly he's a photographer turned model....

The first photo on his site that I took has 11 comments, 87 views... The second photo has 29 comments, 140 views... and it hasn't even been on there long. "Great Shot... Excellent color/lighting... "Hot concept, Good contrast between the model against his background, Excellent..." Very flattering just knowing that I took the photo but NO PHOTOGRAPHER CREDIT... I'll tell him I don't mind giving it to him without the logo as long as he gives credit when using the photo online.

I have done model releases in the past but I've been lazy lately. I'm going to start doing it again...

 

[Lynnzora]

your[/I] edits to be seen by the world. And start thinking about getting paid. Set up paperwork such as model releases and terms which state which can and cannot be done with the images.

Yeah I do feel funny giving away untouched images. It works right now but I don't want to get too big of a head too fast. My photography has definitely grown A LOT A LOT!!! But I still have a lot to learn. I do charge for tedious jobs, and for gas, and food if I'm out there for a while... I know some people disagree with charging anything unless your a PRO but I disagree. Everyone's time and energy is worth SOMETHING.

Anyway, thanks for the advice again.

 

[musicaleCA]

Laziness isn't really an excuse for poor business practise. Just saying. You really need to have a very clear model release for these kinds of shoots that very, very, precisely and in no unsimple terms says what they can and cannot do with the photos you give them, and under what conditions. If you're going to go with handing them all the untouched photos and offering to retouch 5, then I'd put something in the license clearly stating that those are the terms, and the untouched images can't be redistributed, and have a separate document confirming the retouched images and how they may be used.

Take a good look at the ASMP's website. They have a great example of an adult model release form, and once you get the hang of the legalease it's pretty easy to throw some of your own edits. Just be clear and concise; it's important that there is as little room for interpretation as possible.

 

[Lynnzora]

Laziness isn't really an excuse for poor business practise. Just saying. You really need to have a very clear model release for these kinds of shoots that very, very, precisely and in no unsimple terms says what they can and cannot do with the photos you give them, and under what conditions. If you're going to go with handing them all the untouched photos and offering to retouch 5, then I'd put something in the license clearly stating that those are the terms, and the untouched images can't be redistributed, and have a separate document confirming the retouched images and how they may be used.

Take a good look at the ASMP's website. They have a great example of an adult model release form, and once you get the hang of the legalease it's pretty easy to throw some of your own edits. Just be clear and concise; it's important that there is as little room for interpretation as possible.

Umm yeah, thanks... I think that I just said that I needed to change that. With a few TFCD jobs I have done I didn't end up using a model release... Should have. So with this guy I may just have to send him what he wants, and request credit but since he didn't sign the release... I guess I can't do anything.

And I do have my own custom model release form. Yep the last few shoots was just lazy... Not an excuse. Just reality. I guess since it was just supposed to be some quick jobs... No big deal.... I didn't have high expectations going in but I totally underestimated myself. And from on now no matter if I'm shooting TFCD or Paid, I will be using the model realease for EVERYTHING.

 

[musicaleCA]

Sorry; didn't mean to come-off as if I were being accusatory. I just worry a little; I've seen really nasty things happen to a few people I knew that could have been solved with a solid model release. :-/

 

[brysons]

I just noticed an interesting article on the subject of showing unedited shots after TFCD shoots. This is advice for models about what they should expect from a photographer.

I'll be honest, I found it because I had to look up what TFCD meant! But still, I think it's a good perspective to consider. It may affect what they end up thinking of you.

TFCD Time for CD Photo Shoots explained by a Photographer

 

[musicaleCA]

Heheh. I found the same little article when I looked up TFCD for the first time too. It definitely had great points to make. ^.^

 

[Lynnzora]

I read it. Nice article. I think I'm in transition... Newbie to pro... not quite there but working on it. I think I did it originally because that's what people were requesting. After hearing constant complaining about photographers who take months and months to give them their photos... OR photographers disappearing with money... I thought giving a CD with all images the same day would be appealing but I can definitely how that can seen as not respecting your work, etc... Thanks for all of the replies

 

[inTempus]

I never give them all of my images, not even close. You don't want the poorly composed, out of focus, test shots, etc. in circulation. Especially if the model is dingy enough to post them with your name associated with them. Of my last couple of shoots, I gave the model 3 images. We were trying for a specific look each time, and once I captured that look I stopped the shoot and gave her the best 3 of my edits. There's no need for 100 pictures of the same thing, especially those shots that creatively don't meet my standards. I don't want them out there. It can do damage to your reputation.

Next, spell out the nature of the relationship in writing. Put it in a release form that they sign. I also put the game rules on my MM page so there's no question going into the arrangement. If they say "I didn't know that", point them to the release form they signed and to your MM page. Here's my page as an example: ModelMayhem.com - inTempus - Photographer - Valparaiso, US

Take charge, and lay down the ground rules. Don't be too flexible just because you're new to the MM game. You know how you want things to go, so set the rules that you want to play by. You will find plenty of willing models regardless of how many images you release or how you release them... at least that's been my experience.

Good luck!

 

[Lynnzora]

Ok I think my new policy will be to give them 5 edited photos. I'll put them on my site (online gallery)... I may edit more and put them on there but if they want more than the 5 they'll have to purchase them from the site. It also saves time so I don't have to sit there directly following the shoot burning the images.

Now there are some paying customers who absolutely demand all images. To not be giving them untouched images... that would be a lot of editing to do... lol I have some thinking to do...

 

[Lynnzora]

OOoooh another question. What if a client absolutely falls in love with a photo you think is wack... maybe the arm is cut off... or something that is very noticable to you or other photographers. The request this image. What would you do say sorry you can't have it... or try to edit as much as possible OR just give it to them and say "don't put my name on it (I don't want credit for this one..." lol

 

[Christie Photo]

Now there are some paying customers who absolutely demand...

uhhh... let's stop right there.

Sorry. No "demands" entertained here. I'LL do what I said I would do, and YOU (the customer) do what you said you would do. It's really pretty simple.

-Pete