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I clicked on your thread willing to read through a few pages of BS but 30 is way to much.

There are very few artistic people on forums. You will find gear obsessed people. You will find others who will write you a 10 page essay on the history of the art with no understanding of art whatsoever as shown by their photos. You will find few artists.

They don't last here. For good reasons.

Art has little to nothing to do with technique, gear or knowledge of history as understood by non artistic members of the forum.

Good luck.
 
=usayit;1996236]I'm sorry PP, you are full of crap.. er.. (did I think of that out loud).. I meant.
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Your comments about photography are entirely without truth or merit.
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guys... he rejects even credible sources he references himself (even got him going in circles)... at that point, intelligent conversation turns into head banging on wall conversation.
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A necessary condition of a statement must be satisfied for the statement to be true.

You failed to realize that it is the implications afterwards that I have a problem. Making neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for something to be classified as art.

Again.. you leisurely ignore mine and other's questions.. but expect me to respond to yours.

Good day to you. I've made my point by poking holes in your arguments from the very references you use. Next time, you should actually read those articles/essays/books before using them.

not a credible resource but an interesting essay to read:
The Art of Photography

I picked what I thought was a useful statement for our purposes here. It establishes the foundation for my assertion that photography isn't art because it doesn't meet that necessary condition. Whatever else he may say may contradict that, perhaps because he wasn't thinking.


for my assertion

Which translates to:

1. a positive statement or declaration, often without support or reason.

2. a positive statement, usually made without an attempt at furnishing evidence.

Hence you are voicing a mere opinion, nothing more, with no more value than that of a single opinion.


I believe that usayit put it best when he stated, and I quote:

"Good day to you... you are not worthy of my attention."
 
Without naming names, someone here is simply hijacking threads for attention. The original poster and their questions are forgotten and he makes it all about him. Good attention, bad attention... it doesn't matter. He just wants attention. And we're all feeding his need to be at the center. I think enough is enough.
 
Without naming names, someone here is simply hijacking threads for attention. The original poster and their questions are forgotten and he makes it all about him. Good attention, bad attention... it doesn't matter. He just wants attention. And we're all feeding his need to be at the center. I think enough is enough.

Yup... I can't believe this thread has been in the 'Active Topics' listing for about two weeks now. A review of the last 16 pages of discussion will reveal that there's nothing more to be said.
 
omg... there was 30 pages of this. Never mind. I deleted my comments. wow.

lol

btw, I think pgriz or whatever kinda nailed it on page 2. :)
 
Without naming names, someone here is simply hijacking threads for attention. The original poster and their questions are forgotten and he makes it all about him. Good attention, bad attention... it doesn't matter. He just wants attention. And we're all feeding his need to be at the center. I think enough is enough.

Yup... I can't believe this thread has been in the 'Active Topics' listing for about two weeks now. A review of the last 16 pages of discussion will reveal that there's nothing more to be said.

WOW!

Some of us have mentioned that weeks ago. We also mentioned the idea of ignoring the guy. How hard is that? The guy doesn't have anything much to contribute yet any thread he posts in becomes his...

And I have no problem naming names. PP, get lost.
 
Without naming names, someone here is simply hijacking threads for attention. The original poster and their questions are forgotten and he makes it all about him. Good attention, bad attention... it doesn't matter. He just wants attention. And we're all feeding his need to be at the center. I think enough is enough.

Yup... I can't believe this thread has been in the 'Active Topics' listing for about two weeks now. A review of the last 16 pages of discussion will reveal that there's nothing more to be said.

WOW!

Some of us have mentioned that weeks ago. We also mentioned the idea of ignoring the guy. How hard is that? The guy doesn't have anything much to contribute yet any thread he posts in becomes his...

And I have no problem naming names. PP, get lost.

To late, he was voluntarily lost earlier in the day:

Petraio Prime
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ohio
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but its not page 42 yet!! gah this makes finding the question a lot lot harder now!
 
omg... there was 30 pages of this. Never mind. I deleted my comments. wow.

lol

btw, I think pgriz or whatever kinda nailed it on page 2. :)

Please return your comments, they were appropriate with meaning.
 
mmm... ok. I have a lot of respect for gryph, so if he asks me to repost them I shall do so.

First off, I just wanted to say that with all the back and forth we get the usual drowning out of the one or two people who say something that really nails it. I felt that pgriz was one of these drowned out people, and he nailed it as early as page 2.




Good art succeeds by moving the spirit, evoking emotion, giving voice to what was mute, lending us eyes tosee what we were blind to. Good art often is technically well executed, but the contrary is rarely true. Good art stands on its own merits, and doesn't need the pedigree of its creator to be good. The mechanics of creation are important, but mainly to accomplish their job, and then get out of the way. Good art is also subjective and individual - what may move you to tears, may leave me indifferent. Neither reaction is "right" or "wrong", nor is it necessary that you experience the idea that the creator wanted you to have. However, most of "us" are insecure in our own opinions and seek validation from others to confirm that "we" are "right". Which opens the door to a forceful personality to sway the group that a particular viewpoint is "good" and the rest is "bad". Currently, there is a fetish-like adoration in photographic circles of sharpness, straight horizon lines, positioning using the rules of thirds, etc. Well, those things can be important, IF they provide the "AHA" or "Eureka" reaction. By themselves, they are just a means to an end. And the end is to open eyes, touch hearts, stimulate brains. If that doesn't happen, it's not good art.



The second thing I said was that this is my take on this whole topic...

Vincent van Gough was largely ignored and even laughed at as an artist during his time. Today he is considered to be one of the most important and beloved artists of all time. A visionary. A pioneer.

I personally don't like his stuff at all.

Think about that for a bit.
 
Thank you, manaheim, for noticing. I think unfortunately, the majority of the "discussion" was a red-herring.

There is a problem with photography – it’s much too easy to be seduced into “equipmentitis” thinking that a bigger/faster/more expensive lens or body or flash will give us the better pictures we crave. All the marketing is focused on getting us to buy into that. This is no different than the beer commercials where dorky guys start buying/drinking the advertised brew, and by magic, they are instantly surrounded by gorgeous young women. Or someone gets into a new car and instantly is transported (in successive clips) to the beach by the ocean, a stunning mountain top, etc. Now we know that this type of “aspirational” advertising tries to create a link between the wished-for outcome, and the product being flogged. But we often seem to forget that when it comes to photographic equipment.

When it comes to making memorable images, be they “art” or advertising, the true skill is to create a compelling story to pull the viewer into the image. The storyline may be simple (and in fact, simpler is better), and it is successful, it causes the viewer to stop and really look. A storyline is not conveyed by f-stops and shutter speeds – it is conveyed by the arrangement of materials in the image, by the skillful use of lighting to highlight some aspects and hide others, by the composition which allow the eye to wander (or not), and by the elimination of distracting elements (hot spots, obstructing foreground elements, visual noise, background clutter, etc.).

What’s the link between the first paragraph above, and the second? Well, it’s the “way” we see stuff. The eye is not a camera. Everything we see is constructed in our brains. There is a lot of neural processing going on to construct the “image” of the world we perceive as “real”. 99.99% of the time we’re not aware of this process, and we accept what we think we see at face value. However, things that interfere with the neural processing (alcohol, drugs, certain neural diseases, some toxins, chemical imbalances, etc.), make us aware that the process of perceiving the outside world is much more complicated than we usually know. One characteristic of this processing, is that we use visual labels for things, so that we don’t have to process the whole object every time we see something. This shows up in the phenomenon that we see what we expect to see, not necessarily what’s actually there. It also shows up in the way we look at the world, having picked up from our culture (and seeing is culture-influenced), certain conventions of perception.

As manaheim indicated, Van Gough, due to his mental illness, portrayed the world as he saw it, and at the time, he was laughed at because people just couldn’t connect what he created and their personal experience. Much later, when there was a less rigid way of looking at stuff, there came an appreciation for his genius, and still later, when we started to understand the mental processes underlying perception, did we start to understand why he did it that way.

Again, what does all this have to do with the photography? Well, certain clichés work because we’ve absorbed that chiche as a visual shortcut, and we instantly recognize it without taking the time to study the image. However, really good images break through that and force us to stop and really stare, looking at the image without the filter of our preconceptions and conventions. That is why deliberately breaking the rules can work – the image doesn’t “flow” according to the implicit mental rules. But once you do that, you better deliver – you’ve forced the viewer to work at understanding your image, and they better have a payback for their effort.
 
Discussion => Tracks
 
I vote this one thread to be the longest piece of drivel I've ever seen on any forum. H
 
I vote this one thread to be the longest piece of drivel I've ever seen on any forum. H

With all due respects, in my opinion, this is not the longest piece of drivel on any forum. I believe that this thread is longer and more drivelly. Google's 2007-Q3/Q4 PageRank (PR) Update

Flash Harry, I'm really not spoiling for a fight, just trying to make Overread happy and get the thing to 42 pages.
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