The Coffee House

[waday]

And apparently, law schools enrollments are dropping and they're getting antsy, more willing to give free tuition to someone whose LSAT scores are high enough and who commit to that school. If that's the case in a few years and if I decide it's something worth doing, I might give it a try.

Congrats and good luck at the paralegal position! That's exciting!

Before applying and going the JD route, keep a good eye on the job market. The field right now is supersaturated with both recent grads and recently laid-off, experienced attorneys. This is most likely one reason enrollment is down.. there are no jobs.

My wife is in a situation where she couldn't get a typical job with a firm, and after several years doing the whole 'doc review' thing, she couldn't stand it. She left the field, but is still doing some pro-bono work on the side. Doc review (i.e., "contract attorney") is quite horrible. Working conditions are usually terrible, and the pay depends. Sometimes the jobs are a month long, sometimes more. Sometimes only a few days.

This New Low For Document Review Will Surprise You Above the Law

One of her friends found a full-time job, but it only paid $35,000. Not much considering the promise of a high salary when accepting school loans in the $160,000-range and living just outside NYC. Another found a $40,000 job with similar debt in Philly. My wife was 'lucky' to have less than $100,000 debt.

If you graduate from a top-tier, ivy league law school or if you have family in the business, you won't have an issue finding a job (assuming your family will hire you). If you don't, it may take you a long while. Unfortunately, it's probably better to be a paralegal than an attorney, at least at the current time.

Search the web and read the articles.

 

[tirediron]

And apparently, law schools enrollments are dropping and they're getting antsy, more willing to give free tuition to someone whose LSAT scores are high enough and who commit to that school. If that's the case in a few years and if I decide it's something worth doing, I might give it a try.

Congrats and good luck at the paralegal position! That's exciting!

Before applying and going the JD route, keep a good eye on the job market. The field right now is supersaturated with both recent grads and recently laid-off, experienced attorneys. This is most likely one reason enrollment is down.. there are no jobs.

My wife is in a situation where she couldn't get a typical job with a firm, and after several years doing the whole 'doc review' thing, she couldn't stand it. She left the field, but is still doing some pro-bono work on the side. Doc review (i.e., "contract attorney") is quite horrible. Working conditions are usually terrible, and the pay depends. Sometimes the jobs are a month long, sometimes more. Sometimes only a few days.

This New Low For Document Review Will Surprise You Above the Law

One of her friends found a full-time job, but it only paid $35,000. Not much considering the promise of a high salary when accepting school loans in the $160,000-range and living just outside NYC. Another found a $40,000 job with similar debt in Philly. My wife was 'lucky' to have less than $100,000 debt.

If you graduate from a top-tier, ivy league law school or if you have family in the business, you won't have an issue finding a job (assuming your family will hire you). If you don't, it may take you a long while. Unfortunately, it's probably better to be a paralegal than an attorney, at least at the current time.

Search the web and read the articles.

Sounds like yet one more reason to go into the trades... I don't know too many unemployed or under-paid plumbers!

 

[snowbear117 48]

Leonore - I just thought of something. You could market your paralegal services to all the new fauxtographers in NY; make them such a deal on contracts and releases and copyright transfers (they won't have a clue).

 

[KenC]

Sounds like yet one more reason to go into the trades... I don't know too many unemployed or under-paid plumbers!

There's been some controversy lately about whether college is "worth it" or not. I'd say it's always worthwhile for what you learn and the enjoyment you get from that (assuming you feel that way about it), but the case for running up a lot of debt to do it is much harder to make. I would imagine in the current economy that jobs in the trades might be pretty hard to get.

 

[snowbear117 48]

There's been some controversy lately about whether college is "worth it" or not. I'd say it's always worthwhile for what you learn and the enjoyment you get from that (assuming you feel that way about it), but the case for running up a lot of debt to do it is much harder to make. I would imagine in the current economy that jobs in the trades might be pretty hard to get.

This depends a lot on the type of job you are looking for. I am seeing entry-level positions that are requiring a master's degree plus 2-3 years experience.

 

[waday]

And apparently, law schools enrollments are dropping and they're getting antsy, more willing to give free tuition to someone whose LSAT scores are high enough and who commit to that school. If that's the case in a few years and if I decide it's something worth doing, I might give it a try.

Congrats and good luck at the paralegal position! That's exciting!

Before applying and going the JD route, keep a good eye on the job market. The field right now is supersaturated with both recent grads and recently laid-off, experienced attorneys. This is most likely one reason enrollment is down.. there are no jobs.

My wife is in a situation where she couldn't get a typical job with a firm, and after several years doing the whole 'doc review' thing, she couldn't stand it. She left the field, but is still doing some pro-bono work on the side. Doc review (i.e., "contract attorney") is quite horrible. Working conditions are usually terrible, and the pay depends. Sometimes the jobs are a month long, sometimes more. Sometimes only a few days.

This New Low For Document Review Will Surprise You Above the Law

One of her friends found a full-time job, but it only paid $35,000. Not much considering the promise of a high salary when accepting school loans in the $160,000-range and living just outside NYC. Another found a $40,000 job with similar debt in Philly. My wife was 'lucky' to have less than $100,000 debt.

If you graduate from a top-tier, ivy league law school or if you have family in the business, you won't have an issue finding a job (assuming your family will hire you). If you don't, it may take you a long while. Unfortunately, it's probably better to be a paralegal than an attorney, at least at the current time.

Search the web and read the articles.

Sounds like yet one more reason to go into the trades... I don't know too many unemployed or under-paid plumbers!

Couldn't agree more!

 

[limr31]

Congrats and good luck at the paralegal position! That's exciting!

Before applying and going the JD route, keep a good eye on the job market. The field right now is supersaturated with both recent grads and recently laid-off, experienced attorneys. This is most likely one reason enrollment is down.. there are no jobs.

My wife is in a situation where she couldn't get a typical job with a firm, and after several years doing the whole 'doc review' thing, she couldn't stand it. She left the field, but is still doing some pro-bono work on the side. Doc review (i.e., "contract attorney") is quite horrible. Working conditions are usually terrible, and the pay depends. Sometimes the jobs are a month long, sometimes more. Sometimes only a few days.

This New Low For Document Review Will Surprise You Above the Law

One of her friends found a full-time job, but it only paid $35,000. Not much considering the promise of a high salary when accepting school loans in the $160,000-range and living just outside NYC. Another found a $40,000 job with similar debt in Philly. My wife was 'lucky' to have less than $100,000 debt.

If you graduate from a top-tier, ivy league law school or if you have family in the business, you won't have an issue finding a job (assuming your family will hire you). If you don't, it may take you a long while. Unfortunately, it's probably better to be a paralegal than an attorney, at least at the current time.

Search the web and read the articles.

Thanks! Everything you say is exactly what I'm keeping in mind and is why I decided to take advantage of my meager 'perks' as an adjunct and do my Paralegal Certificate for free. Health care, insurance coding, and paralegal are some of the very FEW job markets that are still expanding. I imagine one reason paralegal jobs are growing is because fewer lawyer positions are available and companies would rather pay a paralegal salary. I bet many new lawyers are getting paralegal jobs, so why exactly would I want to have law school debt for doing the same work I'd be doing with a free Certificate?

I'm as far from a 'legacy' family as one can be and the only lawyer in the family is my brother-in-law who is an in-house patent attorney for a pharmaceutical company. For him to use nepotism to get me a job, I'd have to get my JD plus a Bachelor's in chemistry, and I'd have to do it before he retires in just a couple of years! Oh well

I've got Columbia Law School near me, and if they offer me a free ride, then hell yeah, I'll go to an Ivy League school, but chances are I'd end up at Pace University Law School, which is where many of the area lawyers went to school. And it would still need to be free.

Leonore - I just thought of something. You could market your paralegal services to all the new fauxtographers in NY; make them such a deal on contracts and releases and copyright transfers (they won't have a clue).

Yeah...I think that's kinda illegal

Sounds like yet one more reason to go into the trades... I don't know too many unemployed or under-paid plumbers!

There's been some controversy lately about whether college is "worth it" or not. I'd say it's always worthwhile for what you learn and the enjoyment you get from that (assuming you feel that way about it), but the case for running up a lot of debt to do it is much harder to make. I would imagine in the current economy that jobs in the trades might be pretty hard to get.

It's true that a college degree can be very valuable. I just see a lot students come through my school that would be SO much better off if they went to a trade school, and I think we do them a disservice by allowing them to think that college is the only way to make a decent living and have a comfortable lifestyle. They all say they want to "be someone" but scratch the surface and what that really means is they just want to make enough money so they can have a nice house and car, and provide for their families. Some of them would be more likely to achieve this if they went into a trade.

 

[waday]

Congrats and good luck at the paralegal position! That's exciting!

Before applying and going the JD route, keep a good eye on the job market. The field right now is supersaturated with both recent grads and recently laid-off, experienced attorneys. This is most likely one reason enrollment is down.. there are no jobs.

My wife is in a situation where she couldn't get a typical job with a firm, and after several years doing the whole 'doc review' thing, she couldn't stand it. She left the field, but is still doing some pro-bono work on the side. Doc review (i.e., "contract attorney") is quite horrible. Working conditions are usually terrible, and the pay depends. Sometimes the jobs are a month long, sometimes more. Sometimes only a few days.

This New Low For Document Review Will Surprise You Above the Law

One of her friends found a full-time job, but it only paid $35,000. Not much considering the promise of a high salary when accepting school loans in the $160,000-range and living just outside NYC. Another found a $40,000 job with similar debt in Philly. My wife was 'lucky' to have less than $100,000 debt.

If you graduate from a top-tier, ivy league law school or if you have family in the business, you won't have an issue finding a job (assuming your family will hire you). If you don't, it may take you a long while. Unfortunately, it's probably better to be a paralegal than an attorney, at least at the current time.

Search the web and read the articles.

Thanks! Everything you say is exactly what I'm keeping in mind and is why I decided to take advantage of my meager 'perks' as an adjunct and do my Paralegal Certificate for free. Health care, insurance coding, and paralegal are some of the very FEW job markets that are still expanding. I imagine one reason paralegal jobs are growing is because fewer lawyer positions are available and companies would rather pay a paralegal salary. I bet many new lawyers are getting paralegal jobs, so why exactly would I want to have law school debt for doing the same work I'd be doing with a free Certificate?

I'm as far from a 'legacy' family as one can be and the only lawyer in the family is my brother-in-law who is an in-house patent attorney for a pharmaceutical company. For him to use nepotism to get me a job, I'd have to get my JD plus a Bachelor's in chemistry, and I'd have to do it before he retires in just a couple of years! Oh well

I've got Columbia Law School near me, and if they offer me a free ride, then hell yeah, I'll go to an Ivy League school, but chances are I'd end up at Pace University Law School, which is where many of the area lawyers went to school. And it would still need to be free.

Leonore - I just thought of something. You could market your paralegal services to all the new fauxtographers in NY; make them such a deal on contracts and releases and copyright transfers (they won't have a clue).

Yeah...I think that's kinda illegal

Sounds like yet one more reason to go into the trades... I don't know too many unemployed or under-paid plumbers!

There's been some controversy lately about whether college is "worth it" or not. I'd say it's always worthwhile for what you learn and the enjoyment you get from that (assuming you feel that way about it), but the case for running up a lot of debt to do it is much harder to make. I would imagine in the current economy that jobs in the trades might be pretty hard to get.

It's true that a college degree can be very valuable. I just see a lot students come through my school that would be SO much better off if they went to a trade school, and I think we do them a disservice by allowing them to think that college is the only way to make a decent living and have a comfortable lifestyle. They all say they want to "be someone" but scratch the surface and what that really means is they just want to make enough money so they can have a nice house and car, and provide for their families. Some of them would be more likely to achieve this if they went into a trade.

Bachelor's in chemistry and a JD? No problem. How many protons are there in a deposition?

 

[limr31]

To be a patent attorney, you need a degree in a hard science - physics, engineering, chemistry, biology...Because you will need to have at least a basic understanding of the patent application you are helping your client file. There aren't many linguistics patents

 

[SquarePeg37 8]

Sounds like yet one more reason to go into the trades... I don't know too many unemployed or under-paid plumbers!

There's been some controversy lately about whether college is "worth it" or not. I'd say it's always worthwhile for what you learn and the enjoyment you get from that (assuming you feel that way about it), but the case for running up a lot of debt to do it is much harder to make. I would imagine in the current economy that jobs in the trades might be pretty hard to get.

Seems that a 4 yr. degree is the minimum requirement these days for many companies that used to hire non college graduates. Our company will no longer hire anyone without a degree, even for the union customer service and technician jobs. Those in management who were already with the company and didn't have degrees have been gradually eliminated through lay offs and attrition. Fortunately for me, I took advantage or the tuition reimbursement that was offered and finished my degree shortly before the new policies went into effect.

I agree that the trades are a good and often overlooked option but it seems you usually need an "in" to get an apprenticeship.

 

[snerd]

I don't agree with the current political talking point that "everybody" deserves a college degree. It makes no sense to me, and it's just used as a vote-getter or a feel-good measure. There will always be those of us that work in the trades or some other line of employment not requiring college. We'll always need the 'garbageman' and the plumber and those doing the day-to-day mundane tasks that need to be done. So face it, not "everyone" should go to college. Yeah, it can make one feel good saying it, but it's not actually the truth.

So there.

 

[snerd]

Decided to clean up my desktop tower today. OMG! Can you say dust storm?! Finally had to go get a trash bag there was so much of it! Pulled out the video card and all 4 memory sticks, sprayed 'em all off, sprayed down all fans in the box and on the video card, then the inside of the box. Holy cow, Batman! It's a wonder things were running at all! And that anything was getting cooled at all!

Thought about upgrading my memory, just adding some more, but I have 12gb and read that this Dell will only do 16gb total. Bummer. Not adding only another 4gb. I was going to double the ram and upgrade the video card from a 1gb to a 4gb or so, but since I can't do the ram, I'll just forget the video card too. Looks like I'm back to laptop shopping!

 

[Gary A.]

Or Miss Leo, you look for a specialized niche ... like you learn Signing and become the mouth-piece for the those that have no voice????

 

[Gary A.]

PS- It actually is another perfect, gorgeous day today. 75F, slight breeze off the Pacific, blue skies ... perfect.

 

[snerd]

Cleaned my desktop off today. It was filthy nasty and crowded. Now it's clean and roomy!

No selfie stick was used in the production of these images.





Sent from my iPhone 6+ using Tapatalk Pro