The concept and rules of photograpy. (Questions).

[KevinPutman]

So I was recently given some C&C on my latest photos, and it kind of struck me as confusing.

These pictures you've posted just seem to me to be pictures taken because you've seen other stuff that looks like this that was successful.
These pictures mean more to you because they may be the first time you've tried to be 'artistic', they resemble some others pictures that were great, they are in your estimation, cool because they aren't snaps but real attempts. All these thoughts and memories overlay the image in your mind and make it good. It is sort of like every parent thinks their baby is cute and every picture of it is wonderful because of the emotions and memories that baby picture carries along with it - to them.

Other people don't have the memories, they only have the pictures.
One of the hardest skills in photography is learning to be objective about your own work.

Look at pictures that are considered 'good' by a lot of people. Try to understand why they appeal and how the composition, the color treatment, etc create the feeling that you get. Those are manifestations of the 'rules' of photography, which aren't really rules but descriptions of the characteristics that people respond positively to in photos. .

So answer me this. In order to take a good picture, you obviously have to be unique, artistic, creative, and knowledgeable on photography itself. Right? But when my pictures are criticized, people are saying that they're just another attempt to recreate something "cool" I may have seen elsewhere.
In reality, I go somewhere to take pictures, and I just take them. I don't have some concept in mind of what I want it to look like until I'm down on the ground taking the picture.

So how do you be creative with photography?
How do you take pictures and make them look like something that no one else has taken?
I can look at any picture and say, hey I've seen something similar. Were you merely imitating that?
How do "great" photos define themselves as great?

Not sure if my ramblings make sense,
so I'll try to shorten it.

If my photos look like I was trying to imitate another, better photo
then how do I separate mine from theirs?
When in reality, I'm shooting what I have available to me to shoot, whichever way I see fit to shoot it.



Edit
I guess what I'm trying to ask,
is why do people keep telling me that I'm trying too hard, or that I'm imitating something I may have seen,
when in reality, I'm just going out and taking pictures, from whatever angle/perspective/view/way I think they might come out as aesthetically pleasing.

And why is it that when you take a picture, it has to be "understood".

There are very successful artists out there that paint abstract, crazy things, and then sell them for thousands of dollars.
How is photography any different? If a viewer finds it appealing, does it have to have some meaning behind it? Does it have to be understood?

 

[kundalini]

Most of the answers to your questions are said within your own words.

.....In reality, I go somewhere to take pictures, and I just take them. I don't have some concept in mind of what I want it to look like until I'm down on the ground taking the picture.

 

[KevinPutman]

Someone come into my mind, throw out all the garbage, and sort things out for me please.
haha




Edited original post with updated thoughts.

 

[dxqcanada]

Of course we all have our own opinions.

You see what you see.
You try to capture what you see.

Not much else to it.

Now, some may say the successful photograph is one that conveys the same vision that you pictured to all viewers of that image ... but that usually does not happen.

Some may say if you take a B+W picture of Half Dome in Yosemite, you are imitating Ansel Adams ...

You see what you see and you take pictures of it.

 

[o hey tyler]

Take C&C where it is needed and disregard what's personal opinion if you don't feel it would benefit the image overall. There's a lot of BS to trek through when reading C&C a lot of times, the tough part is sorting it out.

Just go out and shoot to explore composition, not try to shoot for another person's vision. (Unless you're getting paid to)

 

[o hey tyler]

Also, don't ever do meth. I hear it's really bad for your health.

 

[KevinPutman]

Also, don't ever do meth. I hear it's really bad for your health.

I once had an argument with some kid, that said meth couldn't kill you, and wasn't harmful at all. Also that it didn't mess up your teeth in any way.
The source for his argument was wikipedia.

One of my main points was "If wikipedia said fairies were real, would you believe it?"

 

[o hey tyler]

Was the kid you were arguing with Charlie Sheen?

 

[JWellman]

:lmao: @Tyler

Let’s compare my three year old grandson and say, his mother. I give them both the same page to color and the same amount of crayons. Yes, the grandson will have a nice colorful design, but obviously the mother’s work is going to have a better outcome. It’s all a matter of learning to stay in the lines. :lmao:

I’m not comparing noobs (myself included) to three year olds, but in a sense that’s what we are!

Earlier I was reading a topic about lighting. I looked at the photos and my first thought was, “hmmm…pretty good work!”

Then, I read the critiques, scrolled back up to the photos again and thought to myself, “Crap… I didn’t even see that.” ...Which is the main reason I very seldom answer C&C's. How can I help someone to see when I can't see myself?!?!?!

It’s all visual Kevin. It’s about expanding your mind and seeing things in a different perspective. It’s about seeing lights, colors, shadows, complexions, and so many other elements. Once you begin to see those elements you will be able to find your place.

In the meantime, keep shooting!

 

[photocist]

A post like this might show that you are trying too hard

 

[WesternGuy]

...majority of comments removed for brevity...

Edit
I guess what I'm trying to ask,
is why do people keep telling me that I'm trying too hard, or that I'm imitating something I may have seen,
when in reality, I'm just going out and taking pictures, from whatever angle/perspective/view/way I think they might come out as aesthetically pleasing.

And why is it that when you take a picture, it has to be "understood".

There are very successful artists out there that paint abstract, crazy things, and then sell them for thousands of dollars.
How is photography any different? If a viewer finds it appealing, does it have to have some meaning behind it? Does it have to be understood?

I suspect that a lot of what you do, photographically speaking, is for you and you alone...I don't know if you try to sell your images...I will assume not, for now...

When you ask for C&C, you have to take the "wheat with the chaff" - the good with the bad - so to speak and you have to learn, if you haven't already, to not take it personally. A long time ago, that is exactly what I did, which is why I don't post a lot of images for C&C, because, quite frankly, I am my own worst critic - yes really...I consider my self a serious amateur in that I shoot only for my own satisfaction and if like it, I really don't care who else likes it. I certainly know, almost immediately, if I don't like it...anyway that is my approach to my photography. If it comes across as arrogant, well so be it - I really don't care - I've been taking pictures for over 40 years and I think I have a pretty good idea of what I like and what I don't like...

I really don't know why people are telling you that you are trying to hard or that you are imitating something you have seen - personally, I would ignore that kind of remark, because they are not about your images, rather they are someone's idea of what they think you are doing and how would they know - they probably don't even know you...I would only accept as valid, comments that are aimed at the "technical" or "compositional" aspects of your images and not comments about what people think you are trying to do or not trying to do...which is - just going out and taking pictures, from whatever angle/perspective/view/way I think they might come out as aesthetically pleasing - 'nuff said...

As far as being "understood" - I would bet that if you asked 5 people what they "understood" from one of your images, you would get 5 different ideas. I do mostly nature, wildlife and landscapes photography - I would challenge anyone on what has to be "understood" about an image of a Canada Goose coming in for a landing, other than that it is an image of a bird in flight - I could go on about any of my nature/wildlife/landscape images - there is no hidden message to be "understood" in any of them, no surrealistic message, unless I am completely misunderstanding what is being meant by being "understood"....again, these kind of comments really are not C&C, but rather...well, I don't know what they are, nor do I understand what is intended when someone makes these kinds of comments, because after all, in my humble opinion, if an image has an aesthetic appeal to the viewer what else are you, as a photographer, trying to achieve. Having said this, I will make one qualifying statement - documentary and/or editorial photography is different - it is trying to convey a message and it is usually judged not so much on its technical or compositional merits but on how well it actually conveys the message, which, of course, often does depend on its technical and compositional merits.

Kevin, I don't know if this helps you understand another perspective on your conundrum, but I hope that it will help you cope with what I personally consider to be less than helpful input into your photographic process as an artist - well mine too for that matter, or anyone else's. In my humble opinion, anyone asking for 'C&C" should expect to receive qualified comments on things of a technical nature, e.g., you might have used a fill flash for No. 4, or your crop was a little too tight on the 3rd image, etc...or things of a compositional nature, e.g., you could make better use of the rule of thirds in No. 5...anyway you all get the idea. Maybe we need to change the term "C&C" to something like "Helpful comments on the techncial and compositional aspects"...HCOT&CA :thumbup:

In the meantime, keep shooting and keep practicing...

Cheers,

WesternGuy

 

[enzodm]

"Standing on the shoulder of giants". In art (and science too), what you do is always dependent on what others have done before you. They experimented, and contributed to set (in case of art) the rules of taste, to which you too abide (consciously or not). If you (and me!) just started photographing,this means that you will, in the best case, reproduce some clichet taken from Masters. To produce something really new you have to know what has been done until now - that is, look and study Masters . Then you can decide whether to abide or break rules - but you have to know rules .
However, a preliminary step is knowing the tools, and this has more to do with craftmanship than art. You can take a good picture even without artsy aims, like do many pro photographers.

 

[KmH]

Study the visual arts. There are no rules, just guidelines. Over the last couple of thousand years, artists have used trial and error to figure out what works and what doesn't.

There is more to visual image composition than just the rule of thirds guidelines. There is line, form, shape, complimentary colors. mood, lighting, contrast, proportion, and more: Photography Composition Articles Library

The Photographer's Eye: Composition and Design for Better Digital Photos

Learning to See Creatively: Design, Color & Composition in Photography (Updated Edition)

One of the more common mistakes amateurs make is not understanding the role light plays in photography. In fact, light is what photography is all about.

Here is a photo I made just using several sheets of blank, 8"x12" sketching paper, a piece of foamboard, some push pins, and a speedlight:

 

[vtf]

Every photographer has a style of the art they prefer to work in. Keep experimenting until you find a style of photography you like, look at other photographers work and maybe something will stand out. Keep searching, when it happens you'll feel comfortable in it and there will be your style, your version, your way of doing it.
It's ok to go out shoot but with a purpose, you are looking for your style, what thrills you, motivates you to go further.
Important fact though, every shot out of focus is not stylish. Deliver a quality image first then follow with your style.