TIFF and PNG vs JPG, and one other question

[Mindy]

I'm using Elements 7 so the picture quality seems better; not sure if it's the software or not.

1. Does it buy me anything switching from jpg to tiff or png after coming off the camera formatted jpg? I know all are 8 bit so I don't know if any corrections are being made to a tiff or png during post processing. There does seem to be more pixels/in, that's all I see that is better.
2. What does C&C mean here? I've googled it and it means many things. I think it has something with requesting a critique.

Thanks.

 

[manaheim]

If you save as TIFF or PNG you won't lose any quality in the image when you save it repeatedly or make changes to it. TIFF (assuming you're using non-compression or lossless compression) and PNG save as full quality, whereas JPEG (even in max quality) loses some integrity every time you save it.

I'm not sure if that made ANY sense. I'm tired.

Here...

JPG as TIFF and PNG good.
RAW to TIFF and PNG better.
JPEG to JPEG less good.

There.

lol

 

[Mindy]

If you save as TIFF or PNG you won't lose any quality in the image when you save it repeatedly or make changes to it. TIFF (assuming you're using non-compression or lossless compression) and PNG save as full quality, whereas JPEG (even in max quality) loses some integrity every time you save it.

I'm not sure if that made ANY sense. I'm tired.

Here...

JPG as TIFF and PNG good.
RAW to TIFF and PNG better.
JPEG to JPEG less good.

There.

lol

Okay, let me make sure I understand. If my camera is set to use the jpg format and I upload my images to my computer as jpg, then copying them as tiff or png is good. Why? Because the pixels/in goes up? and jpg is compressed and tiff/png is not? Are there any changes to a jpg file renamed as a tiff/png file after post processing?

Thank you! :blushing:

 

[manaheim]

Lemme try again.

JPEG is a lossy compression format, which means every single time your picture is saved (including the time you camera captures it), a certain amount of information is thrown out.

PNG and TIFF are lossLESS compression formats.

So, when you take the picture as JPEG, you have lost some, but if you then immediately save it as TIFF or PNG, then from that moment on you will not lose any more data when saving the image.

Whereas if you leave it as a JPEG, every time you save it you lose more information on the image, and thus, quality.

 

[Mindy]

Lemme try again.

JPEG is a lossy compression format, which means every single time your picture is saved (including the time you camera captures it), a certain amount of information is thrown out.

PNG and TIFF are lossLESS compression formats.

So, when you take the picture as JPEG, you have lost some, but if you then immediately save it as TIFF or PNG, then from that moment on you will not lose any more data when saving the image.

Whereas if you leave it as a JPEG, every time you save it you lose more information on the image, and thus, quality.

Okay I've got it this time, Chris. Thank you.

 

[rufus5150]

Your camera saving as jpegs has already applied some processing and has already lost some information. Saving in jpegs, it's completely unavoidable.

If the first thing you do is open the jpeg up and save it off as a tiff then use the tiff for further editing, you'll not lose any more image data from that point forward.

In an image workflow, you want to move from lossless to lossy. For example, my workflow in terms of saved images is this:

Raw (from camera) -> .psd files (layered, multiple edits, these may contain more information than the raw files) -> tiff (for print, sized to match my print house's printer specifications) -> jpeg (which I'll sometimes go directly from the psd file rather than th tif)

Raw has the raw camera data
PSD has all of my edits. I edit in 16-bit so it will retain most if not all pixel data that the raw file does plus all of my layered edits.
Tiff flattens the PSD file into a single output file and applies non-lossy (data-only) compression. This doesn't affect image quality.
Jpeg is my web-ready.

 

[Mindy]

Your camera saving as jpegs has already applied some processing and has already lost some information. Saving in jpegs, it's completely unavoidable.

If the first thing you do is open the jpeg up and save it off as a tiff then use the tiff for further editing, you'll not lose any more image data from that point forward.

In an image workflow, you want to move from lossless to lossy. For example, my workflow in terms of saved images is this:

Raw (from camera) -> .psd files (layered, multiple edits, these may contain more information than the raw files) -> tiff (for print, sized to match my print house's printer specifications) -> jpeg (which I'll sometimes go directly from the psd file rather than th tif)

Raw has the raw camera data
PSD has all of my edits. I edit in 16-bit so it will retain most if not all pixel data that the raw file does plus all of my layered edits.
Tiff flattens the PSD file into a single output file and applies non-lossy (data-only) compression. This doesn't affect image quality.
Jpeg is my web-ready.

Thanks rufus5150! You are an invaluable resource!

 

[boogschd]

What does C&C mean here? I've googled it and it means many things. I think it has something with requesting a critique.

comments and criticisms

 

[vlasta]

JPEG is a lossy compression format, which means every single time your picture is saved (including the time you camera captures it), a certain amount of information is thrown out.

...

Whereas if you leave it as a JPEG, every time you save it you lose more information on the image, and thus, quality.

Things are not that grim with JPEG, because:
1) The image produced by CCDs in cameras is not ideal. There is noise and colors are interpolated => in most cases the loss introduced by JPEG compression is unnoticeable or even not-existent (for example in bad lighting conditions when noise level is significant).
2) You can avoid the re-saving loss by using the right software. It beats the JPG->loosless format->JPG way, because there are still 2 JPG compressions on the way.