Vent-Shooting for the Ultra Wealthy

[c.cloudwalker]

Keep in mind that some people have zero to no social skills. Mostly they live in a world that is very different then ours. Not like that is an excuse; just a different perspective.

:thumbup: Although I do think it is an excuse. Even if not the best one. For some of those people, that is all that they know. Sad but true.

 

[Prometheus]

Generally speaking those at the top of the wealth/social ladder have little difference from those you find at the bottom

I'm a bit offended at this considering most of my life I've been on the bottom end of the wealth ladder - I grew up in a very poor neighborhood inside Atlanta next to an area of mixed income ranging from middle-class to the nouveau riche. I went to both a rich high school and a poor high school. A private university and a community college. My experiences have shown me those at all positions of the "wealth/social ladder" have the same propensity to be as arrogant and xenophobic as anybody else ... Everyone's isolated to their own social circle to some extent no matter your income and it's a little unfair to vindicate the just-as-guilty middle class of the same crimes you accuse the upper and lower classes of committing ...

In short, everybody sucks no matter where you go.

 

[matfoster]

i used to do deliveries to people's houses. groceries ordered over the internet. from the single mums and old folks in grim housing estates, i'd get generous tips. from the rich people living behind electronic gates i'd get complaints they'd been short-changed by $2 on a $200 itemised bill or a single bottle of water from 2 or 3 crates or something.

rich doesn't equal 'class'. plenty of plebs have lots of money. and more than a few classy people can be found living on the breadline also.

 

[bennielou]

I'm sorry but it's hard for me to be sensitive to this subject. What did you expect, to walk into the wedding and be treated like a queen? I mean seriously, although you might WISH to be treated as a 'friend', in reality you are doing a job, and as such you are their employee. If you wanted to get pats on the back for every 'job' you do, stick with baby or child photography.

Oh Lordy. Where did that come from?

No, I don't expect to be treated like a queen, and I am fully aware that I am an employee. Unlike some photographers, I do see myself not as an "art-teest" but an employee. There to do the best job I can. Just like the cake lady. Just like the guys that do amazing flowers.

But it makes my job SUPER hard when I have people resistant to taking photographs. And I'm not just talking about the people at the wedding. I'm also referring to the Bride and Groom.

So guess what they are going to say when they get their proofs, and there isn't a single posed photograph? (Because they couldn't be bothered).

And what will they say when they see that half of their wealthy/famous friends photos are missing. Not because we didn't try to take them mind you, but because we were forbidden to do so. What do you think they will say?

What I am saying, is that this group made my job really hard/nearly impossible.

And what the F is the deal with putting Job in parenthasis? Like what I do isn't a job. Listen up....this is what I do for a living. I don't live with Mommy, and I've graduated college long ago. I don't have a second job. This is what I do.

I've shot my fair share of famous people back when I was in photojournalism. To say that I can't deal with it is unfair. They can't deal with it.

What I was voicing, was my frustration at not being able to do my job to my best ability. Not because I wasn't trying. Because I was hampered from doing so.

What I was saying, is that sooooo many wedding photogs dream of this big day when they shoot an $800,000 wedding. I know I did. But then I found that I was so hindered that I couldn't do my best work. And it made me frustrated. Because I want to do the very best work I can for my clients.

So anyway, when you get to that point in your career, you can let me know how you feel then. Maybe you will rock it, and just bow your head and say, "Yes Man"/"Yes Sir" with no regard to the final product.

 

[bennielou]

Cloudwalker,
Is your port online? I didn't see a link.

 

[bennielou]

Generally speaking those at the top of the wealth/social ladder have little difference from those you find at the bottom

I'm a bit offended at this considering most of my life I've been on the bottom end of the wealth ladder - I grew up in a very poor neighborhood inside Atlanta next to an area of mixed income ranging from middle-class to the nouveau riche. I went to both a rich high school and a poor high school. A private university and a community college. My experiences have shown me those at all positions of the "wealth/social ladder" have the same propensity to be as arrogant and xenophobic as anybody else ... Everyone's isolated to their own social circle to some extent no matter your income and it's a little unfair to vindicate the just-as-guilty middle class of the same crimes you accuse the upper and lower classes of committing ...

In short, everybody sucks no matter where you go.

Hi,
I hope you didn't take my post wrong. They didn't suck. They were just...elusive. It was like they thought I would send the photos to People Magazine or something. (I would never do that). They were all pretty much nice, but it was the constant "no photos" that got to me. How in the hell do I shoot a wedding when half the people in the wedding party forbid me to take a photo of them? How do I show what guests were there, dancing and having a good time, when I'm not allowed to take a photo? I mean some of these folks had actual bodygaurds with them. Do I just say "screw you" and take the photo anyways and then run for the door?

No, of course I can't. But then I have to answer to the contracting parties too. They invited all these folks and you better believe they are expecting photos of all these peeps who attended their beautiful daughter's wedding. What am I going to say when they aren't there?

So that is why I give totally props to the photogs who shoot these weddings on a regular basis. I honestly don't know how they handle it. They have to have way better people skills than I do.

And it's still my opinion, that I don't want to do weddings like this one anymore. I can't do the job I was paid to do. I don't want to do things half assed, and that is what I had to resort to.

 

[Big Mike]

I think a big part of the issue is the way you were booked.

I never met the B&G.
The wedding party is the who's who of the planet. I didn't know that either.

I don't know if you mentioned it, but were you actually picked/booked by the B&G or by some assistant or wedding planner?

My point is that they didn't seem to be emotionally invested in their wedding photos. When a typical B&G spend time choosing a photographer and meeting with them, there is usually some sort of emotional investment. They are paying you good money and they want good photos....so they will likely do what they can to make that happen.
In this case, even though it was a lot of money, it was probably chump change to them. There was little investment in you, and you were just another vendor to them.

If you could have set a meeting and talked to them, you surely would have been able to let them know how you work and what kind of cooperation you want/expect. If they has said that some guests won't want their picture taken, then at least you would have known that going in. Or if they said that they did want photos, you could have told them that it's their responsibility to ask their guests for permission etc.

Also, was there a wedding planner that you could have asked about this? I've worked a few weddings with pro wedding planners and they would be the go-to person for an issue like this. They may not be able to help, but they are probably in a better position to do something about it.


Not really a solution, but I keep thinking that if you charged them $200,000 and walked into that place like you were Annie Leibovitz, it might command enough respect that they would have little choice but to submit to being photographed. But you might actually have to be Annie Leibovitz to pull that off. :er:

 

[bennielou]

I think a big part of the issue is the way you were booked.

I never met the B&G.
The wedding party is the who's who of the planet. I didn't know that either.

I don't know if you mentioned it, but were you actually picked/booked by the B&G or by some assistant or wedding planner?

My point is that they didn't seem to be emotionally invested in their wedding photos. When a typical B&G spend time choosing a photographer and meeting with them, there is usually some sort of emotional investment. They are paying you good money and they want good photos....so they will likely do what they can to make that happen.
In this case, even though it was a lot of money, it was probably chump change to them. There was little investment in you, and you were just another vendor to them.

If you could have set a meeting and talked to them, you surely would have been able to let them know how you work and what kind of cooperation you want/expect. If they has said that some guests won't want their picture taken, then at least you would have known that going in. Or if they said that they did want photos, you could have told them that it's their responsibility to ask their guests for permission etc.

Also, was there a wedding planner that you could have asked about this? I've worked a few weddings with pro wedding planners and they would be the go-to person for an issue like this. They may not be able to help, but they are probably in a better position to do something about it.


Not really a solution, but I keep thinking that if you charged them $200,000 and walked into that place like you were Annie Leibovitz, it might command enough respect that they would have little choice but to submit to being photographed. But you might actually have to be Annie Leibovitz to pull that off. :er:

I WISH I was Annie Leibovitz, (without the money problems of course).

Here is how it went down. The wedding coordinator origally found us. The bride contacted me via e-mail and said she loved the website. I thanked her and asked her if I could answer any questions for her. She replied that, no, she was fine and wanted to book.
I asked her if she wanted to meet with me in person, but she replied that no, she was from out of town. So I sent her a contract which she and her mother filled out and sent me back online.
I had never seen the bride until the wedding day.

Even though they booked everything I had to offer, and I made a good deal on the contract, you are right that they weren't invested in the photography. It was the largest photography budget I've had to date, but when you look at the budget for the flowers, the seated dinner, the cakes and all the rest, I was probably the least in the overall budget. It was more about the show.

I mean I got to the venue, and just dropped my jaw. I had no idea. No idea at all that is was this massive. But I picked up my marbles and carried on. And then I hit this thunderstorm of "no photos", which really messed up my work.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

I WISH I was Annie Leibovitz, (without the money problems of course).

Don't we all?

PM coming.

 

[bennielou]

Hi Cloud,
Got it. Thanks for writing.

 

[bennielou]

I think a big part of the issue is the way you were booked.

I never met the B&G.
The wedding party is the who's who of the planet. I didn't know that either.

I don't know if you mentioned it, but were you actually picked/booked by the B&G or by some assistant or wedding planner?

My point is that they didn't seem to be emotionally invested in their wedding photos. When a typical B&G spend time choosing a photographer and meeting with them, there is usually some sort of emotional investment. They are paying you good money and they want good photos....so they will likely do what they can to make that happen.
In this case, even though it was a lot of money, it was probably chump change to them. There was little investment in you, and you were just another vendor to them.

If you could have set a meeting and talked to them, you surely would have been able to let them know how you work and what kind of cooperation you want/expect. If they has said that some guests won't want their picture taken, then at least you would have known that going in. Or if they said that they did want photos, you could have told them that it's their responsibility to ask their guests for permission etc.

Also, was there a wedding planner that you could have asked about this? I've worked a few weddings with pro wedding planners and they would be the go-to person for an issue like this. They may not be able to help, but they are probably in a better position to do something about it.


Not really a solution, but I keep thinking that if you charged them $200,000 and walked into that place like you were Annie Leibovitz, it might command enough respect that they would have little choice but to submit to being photographed. But you might actually have to be Annie Leibovitz to pull that off. :er:

Hi again Mike,
I missed one part of your post. My contract basically states that I can't be held liable for people or situations that don't comply. So I'm good there. (Not that they still can't throw a fit.)
The main thing for me was that it was so damn hard to do my job. And if I am hindered from doing my job, they aren't going to get the same type of work they see on my website or my blog.
Even though I made a lot of money on this deal, it wasn't nearly enough for the hassles I put up with, or will face when they get the photos, I suspect.
I was also frustrated that I obviously don't know how to command these types to do my bidding....even if my bidding is only in their best interest.
(Ok, I can already hear the guy with the Queen crap again.

 

[DScience]

Hi again Mike,
I missed one part of your post. My contract basically states that I can't be held liable for people or situations that don't comply. So I'm good there. (Not that they still can't throw a fit.)
The main thing for me was that it was so damn hard to do my job. And if I am hindered from doing my job, they aren't going to get the same type of work they see on my website or my blog.
Even though I made a lot of money on this deal, it wasn't nearly enough for the hassles I put up with, or will face when they get the photos, I suspect.
I was also frustrated that I obviously don't know how to command these types to do my bidding....even if my bidding is only in their best interest.
(Ok, I can already hear the guy with the Queen crap again.

Again I am failing to feel any sympathy for you. Here's what it sounds like to me:


You made "a lot" of money. Your job was hard because all you had to do was take candid shots of just a small percentage of the guests. Even though your contract guarantees you the money no matter what the results are, you are still pee-pee hurt because they aren't going to be happy with the results. You know what, it's their fault. So now you come here to 'vent' about how....you couldn't do your job well? Geez, if I didn't know any better I would have guessed from your explanation that they simply made your job REALLY EASY!

 

[bennielou]

Ok, DScience. First time ever that I have had to "hide" someone. You get the honors.

I came here to vent, because I have other area to vent to that would understand.



Like I said, when you do this type of job, then you can tell me all about how you did it better. Until then......

And dude, who says "Pee Pee"? Really.

Anyhow, I'm not going to argue with someone who puts Pee Pee in a post. We are obviously very different people, and that's cool, but I'm not likey to take advice from you. Now or in the future.
I hope your future is great.

 

[bennielou]

Opps! Now that I said all that....how do I ignore someone? Mike?

 

[DScience]

Ok, DScience. First time ever that I have had to "hide" someone. You get the honors.

I came here to vent, because I have other area to vent to that would understand.



Like I said, when you do this type of job, then you can tell me all about how you did it better. Until then......

And dude, who says "Pee Pee"? Really.

Anyhow, I'm not going to argue with someone who puts Pee Pee in a post. We are obviously very different people, and that's cool, but I'm not likey to take advice from you. Now or in the future.
I hope your future is great.

Opps! Now that I said all that....how do I ignore someone? Mike?

I think you are really upset because you know I am right. Now you can 'block me', not 'hide'.