Very first wedding, $300 too much or too little?

[jamesbjenkins]

We have all levels of experience, knowledge and education here. The only way to know how worthwhile an "Attaboy" is.. is to get to know that individual, and to check out their "work" and see if it is "much better" or "much worse" than yours.

The "Much Worse" crowd will almost always tell you how great they think your shots are, with no meaningful suggestions (almost like family and clients)...

The "much better" will either:

1. Not say anything at all
2. Make some suggestions on how to improve
3. ignore you if you are perceived as arrogant, and convinced you are so good you don't need help.

Of course.. there are other things that could be said.. but these are the extremes. All advice comes from the giver's perspective... some are knowledgeable, some aren't! It is really up to you to determine what is worthwhile, and what isn't.

This is SO true. This statement should be required reading for every schmuck that thinks they're ready to "go pro". The comments of your family / friends mean nothing. It's like a politician's campaign speech... sounds nice, but completely void of substance.

 

[Majeed Badizadegan]

I charged $750 for my very first wedding I ever shot back in 2006. IMO It says your serious, but learning.

Are you serious? This comes off as totally arrogant and misinformed. You shouldn't be LEARNING if you're charging somebody $750 to take photographs of an extremely important event of their lives (maybe the most important). You need to re-examine your thinking, because it is severely flawed.

I've been shooting weddings for 6 years professionally and I STILL learn something at every wedding I shoot. I don't think I ever want to stop learning.

Charging a number like that says that you have a least some confidence in what you do and it explains that while your not a experienced professional, that your time is still value able.

Also, just because I'm learning doesn't necessarily mean the photos are going to come out looking like some wacked out experiment. The photos came out great, and she (and others) apparently thought so otherwise I wouldn't have shot 3 of her bridesmaid's weddings the next year!

First, I never said you can't learn while shooting, no matter how experienced you are it is a given that you will continue to learn.

The way you made your story sound in context of this thread (I've read EVERY post) is that you jumped into main shooting, with no second shooting experience. In fact, you've gone so far as to explicitly state you have an aversion to second shooting for some strange reasons I don't agree with. You priced yourself at $750 citing "IMO it says your serious, but learning". This is flawed thinking, in my opinion. To me this language implies that you weren't good enough at the time to be charging this much, and comes off a bit arrogant.

Let's go back in time to that first wedding. Where you are now (I've looked at your website, and you do good work) is irrelevant to what I'm talking about. Have you ever considered that maybe you were a bit lucky the photos came out great? Ever thought of that? What if you'd encountered conditions that only an experienced professional would've been suited to handle? Or, perhaps, only conditions you would have been ready for if you had second shooting experience under your belt?

Why should someone else be paying for you to learn?

Maybe if you'd stated it differently, I wouldn't take issue. But I also strongly disagree with your thoughts that second shooting is not important.

 

[Majeed Badizadegan]

^^^^ good wedding photographer ^^^^^

Nevermind.

 

[pixmedic]

oh Lordy...I can see the mods hovering over the thread-lock button already.
I think we are setting records for most threads locked lately.

 

[cgipson1]

oh Lordy...I can see the mods hovering over the thread-lock button already.
I think we are setting records for most threads locked lately.

and they aren't even my FAULT! WOW! How strange is that? lol!

 

[AJev]

Camera type and technical ability aside, I think an important part about shooting weddings that hasn't really been discussed is whether or not you truly enjoy weddings and want to shoot them.

On your FLICKR account, you have a wide variety - urban, landscape, expressive, family, self, but all of it has basically the same feel. For example, your skateboarding shots are great, as are your landscapes, and all look to be processed the same but the wedding samples you provided look as though 5 or 6 different people shot them. In your FLICKR, I see very good examples of sound composition, Cup of Bokeh, seriously, that is awesome and I love it, but your compositions seem weaker in the wedding samples. I know this is your first wedding and you said you were shooting mostly on the fly but it could be something else too, perhaps lack of interest beyond the technical challenge?

This is just my opinion but I think people expect to feel some type of emotion when looking at wedding photographs, they want to see a story, feel as though they are there. If you can accomplish that, then you can consider yourself a wedding photograph and charge accordingly. After watching your slideshow and viewing your samples, I didn't really feel anything. Sure you had some nice shots in the slideshow that were technically sound and some very pretty ones as well, but there were many that were sub par that never should have been included - by including them, it ruined the mood of the series, almost as though we get excited to see a good one and then let down by a lesser one.

Again, this is my personal opinion but I think someone who wants to be a wedding photographer should truly like weddings and respect the sentiment behind them. They should genuinely want to capture the emotions that are seen on what could be the most important day in a person's life. A wedding photographer should know that while it gets crazy sometimes, they might need to get everyone in line (not literally) for certain shots that a bride will want to have later - they should know the key sentiments to capture, regardless of the chaos going on around them. If you don't truly have all of this in you, then you owe it to the Bride and Groom to respectfully decline and refer them to someone else, after all, you can't re-shoot a wedding.

If your heart and mind are truly in it, then go for it but your samples so far don't suggest that you still have a ways to go. Also, CODB aside, only you can put a value on your art. If a bride sees your work (again, you should have a signature style) and likes your work - she will pay for it whether it is $300 or $3000. What myself and other people here value it at is irrelevant (IMO), it is what a bride wants that matters and what she is willing to spend for it. What you may want to do is start out low while you learn and increase by a certain amount every 3-5 weddings you shoot. Keep in mind that for each client, the photographers who are charging more are probably producing between 800-2000 QUALITY images per 10 hour wedding - if you aren't, then you should remain at a lower rate until you are.

Again, just my opinion.

 

[Jonathan Schertzer]

Camera type and technical ability aside, I think an important part about shooting weddings that hasn't really been discussed is whether or not you truly enjoy weddings and want to shoot them.

On your FLICKR account, you have a wide variety - urban, landscape, expressive, family, self, but all of it has basically the same feel. For example, your skateboarding shots are great, as are your landscapes, and all look to be processed the same but the wedding samples you provided look as though 5 or 6 different people shot them. In your FLICKR, I see very good examples of sound composition, Cup of Bokeh, seriously, that is awesome and I love it, but your compositions seem weaker in the wedding samples. I know this is your first wedding and you said you were shooting mostly on the fly but it could be something else too, perhaps lack of interest beyond the technical challenge?

This is just my opinion but I think people expect to feel some type of emotion when looking at wedding photographs, they want to see a story, feel as though they are there. If you can accomplish that, then you can consider yourself a wedding photograph and charge accordingly. After watching your slideshow and viewing your samples, I didn't really feel anything. Sure you had some nice shots in the slideshow that were technically sound and some very pretty ones as well, but there were many that were sub par that never should have been included - by including them, it ruined the mood of the series, almost as though we get excited to see a good one and then let down by a lesser one.

Again, this is my personal opinion but I think someone who wants to be a wedding photographer should truly like weddings and respect the sentiment behind them. They should genuinely want to capture the emotions that are seen on what could be the most important day in a person's life. A wedding photographer should know that while it gets crazy sometimes, they might need to get everyone in line (not literally) for certain shots that a bride will want to have later - they should know the key sentiments to capture, regardless of the chaos going on around them. If you don't truly have all of this in you, then you owe it to the Bride and Groom to respectfully decline and refer them to someone else, after all, you can't re-shoot a wedding.

If your heart and mind are truly in it, then go for it but your samples so far don't suggest that you still have a ways to go. Also, CODB aside, only you can put a value on your art. If a bride sees your work (again, you should have a signature style) and likes your work - she will pay for it whether it is $300 or $3000. What myself and other people here value it at is irrelevant (IMO), it is what a bride wants that matters and what she is willing to spend for it. What you may want to do is start out low while you learn and increase by a certain amount every 3-5 weddings you shoot. Keep in mind that for each client, the photographers who are charging more are probably producing between 800-2000 QUALITY images per 10 hour wedding - if you aren't, then you should remain at a lower rate until you are.

Again, just my opinion.

Perfectly sound and reasonable response, not condescending, Arrogant, or just completely angry for some reason.
This reply give me some things to think about, some consideration to do, and ultimately something to grow from.

And i feel like i do like wedding photography, while it was very hard to stay onto of everything, Especially with a super hectic unorganized wedding. But it was a lot of fun.

I think my problem was that i asked a question, i should have just said "I got $1000 for this wedding, and these are the shots" and i probably would have gotten a couple people say "those are nice" and some people say " you need a little improving" but because i asked a question, i lit the fire under a bunch of very angry, short tempered, "professional" photographers who couldn't think of anything better to say than "i hate it when people try to play "pro photographer" "

But i guess people just like to hold themselves in the highest regard.

Anyway, thank you for your response and thanks to everyone else who skipped the insults, assumptions, and their perceived self worth and gave me an honest opinion whether good or bad.

and the result is that i am going to hold off on professional jobs and try to find some jobs as a 2nd shooter where ever i can.

 

[cgipson1]

Camera type and technical ability aside, I think an important part about shooting weddings that hasn't really been discussed is whether or not you truly enjoy weddings and want to shoot them.

On your FLICKR account, you have a wide variety - urban, landscape, expressive, family, self, but all of it has basically the same feel. For example, your skateboarding shots are great, as are your landscapes, and all look to be processed the same but the wedding samples you provided look as though 5 or 6 different people shot them. In your FLICKR, I see very good examples of sound composition, Cup of Bokeh, seriously, that is awesome and I love it, but your compositions seem weaker in the wedding samples. I know this is your first wedding and you said you were shooting mostly on the fly but it could be something else too, perhaps lack of interest beyond the technical challenge?

This is just my opinion but I think people expect to feel some type of emotion when looking at wedding photographs, they want to see a story, feel as though they are there. If you can accomplish that, then you can consider yourself a wedding photograph and charge accordingly. After watching your slideshow and viewing your samples, I didn't really feel anything. Sure you had some nice shots in the slideshow that were technically sound and some very pretty ones as well, but there were many that were sub par that never should have been included - by including them, it ruined the mood of the series, almost as though we get excited to see a good one and then let down by a lesser one.

Again, this is my personal opinion but I think someone who wants to be a wedding photographer should truly like weddings and respect the sentiment behind them. They should genuinely want to capture the emotions that are seen on what could be the most important day in a person's life. A wedding photographer should know that while it gets crazy sometimes, they might need to get everyone in line (not literally) for certain shots that a bride will want to have later - they should know the key sentiments to capture, regardless of the chaos going on around them. If you don't truly have all of this in you, then you owe it to the Bride and Groom to respectfully decline and refer them to someone else, after all, you can't re-shoot a wedding.

If your heart and mind are truly in it, then go for it but your samples so far don't suggest that you still have a ways to go. Also, CODB aside, only you can put a value on your art. If a bride sees your work (again, you should have a signature style) and likes your work - she will pay for it whether it is $300 or $3000. What myself and other people here value it at is irrelevant (IMO), it is what a bride wants that matters and what she is willing to spend for it. What you may want to do is start out low while you learn and increase by a certain amount every 3-5 weddings you shoot. Keep in mind that for each client, the photographers who are charging more are probably producing between 800-2000 QUALITY images per 10 hour wedding - if you aren't, then you should remain at a lower rate until you are.

Again, just my opinion.

Perfectly sound and reasonable response, not condescending, Arrogant, or just completely angry for some reason.
This reply give me some things to think about, some consideration to do, and ultimately something to grow from.

And i feel like i do like wedding photography, while it was very hard to stay onto of everything, Especially with a super hectic unorganized wedding. But it was a lot of fun.

I think my problem was that i asked a question, i should have just said "I got $1000 for this wedding, and these are the shots" and i probably would have gotten a couple people say "those are nice" and some people say " you need a little improving" but because i asked a question, i lit the fire under a bunch of very angry, short tempered, "professional" photographers who couldn't think of anything better to say than "i hate it when people try to play "pro photographer" "

But i guess people just like to hold themselves in the highest regard.

Anyway, thank you for your response and thanks to everyone else who skipped the insults, assumptions, and their perceived self worth and gave me an honest opinion whether good or bad.

and the result is that i am going to hold off on professional jobs and try to find some jobs as a 2nd shooter where ever i can.

The problem was that you asked a question that we see all the time! Usually by somebody that got their camera ( low end entry consumer model, one bad kit lens, and no additional flash or gear (except maybe a grip since it "looks PRO")) two months ago at Best Buy... and hung up a shingle! They usually use AUTO or P mode (Professional Mode).. and have no concept of DOF, decent exposure, composition, etc.... and they talk about how "EXPENSIVE" their gear was! lol!

There are some here very sensitive to that.. me included!

Does that help with understanding?

 

[Robin Usagani]

Dude.. I use A mode as in Awesome.

Seriously.. I use 90% A mode.

 

[o hey tyler]

Dude.. I use A mode as in Awesome.

Seriously.. I use 90% A mode.

I use A-DEP mode. It decides the depth of field for you.

 

[ghache]

To the one who says don't charge well, **** hem because with the images you showed, you clearly undersold yourself.

No, ghache. **** you.

How do you judge a wedding accurately off six images? Especially a 12 hour wedding?

hey be nice!

 

[cgipson1]

Dude.. I use A mode as in Awesome.

Seriously.. I use 90% A mode.

Ooops.. brain fart typo! AUTO!!! AUTO!! And I know fer damn sure you don't use that!!!!

 

[Robin Usagani]

Dude.. I use A mode as in Awesome.

Seriously.. I use 90% A mode.

Ooops.. brain fart typo! AUTO!!! AUTO!! And I know fer damn sure you don't use that!!!!

You are wrong again.. I use auto when I hand someone the camera because it is too hard to teach them how to use the back button focus LMAO

 

[cgipson1]

Dude.. I use A mode as in Awesome.

Seriously.. I use 90% A mode.

Ooops.. brain fart typo! AUTO!!! AUTO!! And I know fer damn sure you don't use that!!!!

You are wrong again.. I use auto when I hand someone the camera because it is too hard to teach them how to use the back button focus LMAO

Ah sed YOU.. not the dimbulb YOU is handing the camera too! Your jest trying to pick a fight cuz you iz jealous of my awesome Macro skills! lol!

 

[jamesbjenkins]

The problem was that you asked a question that we see all the time! Usually by somebody that got their camera ( low end entry consumer model, one bad kit lens, and no additional flash or gear (except maybe a grip since it "looks PRO")) two months ago at Best Buy... and hung up a shingle! They usually use AUTO or P mode (Professional Mode).. and have no concept of DOF, decent exposure, composition, etc.... and they talk about how "EXPENSIVE" their gear was! lol!

There are some here very sensitive to that.. me included!

Does that help with understanding?

Man, you hit the nail on the head with this one. There's nothing more insulting and frustrating than to see one of these dime a dozen Facebook Fauxtographers who fit the exact description you gave.

Thank God the people who are cheap or ignorant enough to hire them are "clients" I want nothing to do with.

OP, if you haven't figured it out by now, those of us who have spent 5 figures on gear and thousands of hours honing our craft are a wee bit protective of the reputation of our industry. Honestly, I can't for the life of me figure out why some state or local government hasn't decided to regulate the professional activities of people that want to call themselves photographers...

Maybe I should start a new thread.