Vista or XP

[peterbj7]

There are utilities you can run (on XP at any rate - don't know about Vista) which tell you the provenance of all programs/systems running. Bill P's Winpatrol for example. Not perfect but a lot better than nothing. I go through my "automatically running" programs every few days and am often surprised at what has been added to the list without my knowing.

 

[peterbj7]

Don't get me wrong Vista is the future. It has to be. We'll eventually have to upgrade regardless as support for old systems dies

I respectfully disagree with your implication that we have to "upgrade" to the next MS offering. I know corporate users who liked Win98SE because of its vastly better security than later systems, and only moved away from it when MS made it impossible for them to stay with it. Many of them have never been happy with XP as you can drive a coach and horses through its security, and they won't even contemplate Vista. Most of them don't like Macs for corporate use as they have many issues, mostly to do with compatibility and reliability. No, all the organisations I'm thinking of moved to Linux as soon as they could once they realised MS weren't serious about improving XP security. I'm thinking of some pretty big hard hitters here, not little companies that don't matter in the overall scheme of things.

MS have been appalled at the unprecedented and extremely low elective take-up of Vista, and seriously hurt in the pocket. That's why they've been giving it away to major corporate clients, as they know that what people get used to at work they tend to buy for home. That's how MS Office got its stranglehold on the market, because it was then and is now far from the best product of its type. And that's also why many PC manufacturers will now only supply machines with Vista pre-installed and why XP drivers are not being written for many new peripherals and internal devices. It's because MS are applying enormous corporate muscle behind the scenes. They hope that eventually Vista will acquire sufficient market inertia that it will fly regardless of merit, just as Office did. Reading comments like the above must delight them.

Well, many market analysts think that Vista is doomed. I'm not saying that the name will die, as clearly MS have a lot riding on that, but the substance behind the name will change radically. The fact is that many people chose to buy XP for their own use and they're not doing that with Vista. A major reason is that so much pre-existing software that ran under all previous versions of Windows won't run at all under Vista, though as people realise the implications of the spying aspects that becomes an even stronger disincentive.

My decision never to use Vista as currently constituted is not a quick "knee jerk" decision, but a considered one based on my (mostly second-hand) knowledge of it. If I find I can't buy a new machine with XP, or that XP can't be installed on a new machine because of the driver issue, that's when I'll make the move to Linux. That's been an attractive option for some time now and it's becoming easier as the system becomes ever more user-friendly. I've already junked most MS applications as for every one there's a better alternative, and at that point I'll wave goodbye to MS. I'll join the three universities I went to in the UK and two major companies I worked for there which have all made the one-way move already.

I was for some years an assembler programmer, and wrote operating systems for small computers (less powerful than todays wrist watches!). Although I haven't done that for years I still have some knowledge of what's out there, and have looked at some of MS's software. Mostly it's appallingly written, with branches and patches everywhere and great lumps of unused code that's supposedly been bypassed. Small wonder they keep finding problems they hadn't anticipated, as some of these supposedly inactive chunks of code suddenly start running. And they keep a large chunk of memory where they store things intended to be used by lots of programs (mostly operating system programs). You probably know this area as the "registry". This area is dreadfully maintained and out of control, which is why most Windows machines have to be rebooted periodically and why there are so many external routines that try to do what Windows should do for itself without the users even knowing about it. Both Mac OS and Linux do a vastly better job of managing their own internal resources. Windows is and has always been a gigantic con on the public, and it owes its success to slick marketing and devious business practices, not intrinsic merit.

 

[Garbz]

Surely it's not too hard to do a quick google search for the process name in the off chance that you get a virus. This is reasonably advanced stuff. I doubt Microsoft has any intention of having people even figure out what the task manager is, let alone provide a manual to how it normally operates. That and this changes depending on the system, and even changes between service packs. A list of normal processes is pretty meaningless since there's no definition of normal.

Yes I didn't mention Linux as an alternative because most users won't consider it. Mac I could understand to a degree, but most users (and i'm talking mumma and pappa users here, not power users like us) will opt to stay with windows because it's what they know. They are the type of people that will go to Dell to upgrade their computers only to be told as of a few months ago that XP is no longer available on most products, and they need to pay extra to get it on the business line of products.

While there are alternatives, few have the knowledge to consider them, and those along with the fact that many people still require windows support are already being dragged to Vista. As a student our uni part of the MSDNAA even gave me a free upgrade to vista, I still don't use it.

Also on the topic of the dodgy code, I think it's not a case of badly written code, but a bad ideal of having to grasp with both hands backed by corporate culture on the notion of remaining compatible with legacy apps. This was found in the code leak last year which was covered in comments such as "This line is stupid but needed to make xxx work". Macs would be just this bad if they didn't say ******** to this we're switching to a UNIX kernel, and writing something that's good, not something that's over-compatible. I wish this would happen with windows.

 

[Christie Photo]

Wow. Fascinating read!

Thanks, everyone, for taking time.

-Pete

 

[usayit]

Also on the topic of the dodgy code, ...

That and the rather large development team required to meet the set aggressive deadlines of a release date. Large development teams are VERY difficult to manage (left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing). Often the core design engineer(s) don't necessarily agree with a single unified strategy. This shows in the final quality of the release product.

My memory is foggy but I vaguely remember graphics API during the Windows 98 and Windows NT being one such example. One team embraced Direct3D and the other team embraced OpenGL....

Ran into this while I was coordinating a project with Intel. We were a single team with a single project but had to coordinate with two groups within Intel.. one dedicated for server line and the other dedicated to workstation line. It was very confusing... glad I wasn't the lead or single point of contact between the groups.

 

[Garbz]

Ahh yes I know what you mean. I wonder how many coders are on the job of the OS compared to Apple's OS team. Would make for some interesting comparisons.

 

[Easy_Target]

Don't get me wrong Vista is the future. It has to be.

Isn't that what they said about Windows ME?

 

[shorty6049]

well, you could always just go to the store and try a computer with vista on it to see if you like how it feels or something. If you have a capable computer and all you'll be doing is photoshop, then you have nothing to worry about either way you go.

 

[Bifurcator]

Also on the topic of the dodgy code, I think it's not a case of badly written code, but a bad ideal of having to grasp with both hands backed by corporate culture on the notion of remaining compatible with legacy apps. This was found in the code leak last year which was covered in comments such as "This line is stupid but needed to make xxx work". Macs would be just this bad if they didn't say ******** to this we're switching to a UNIX kernel, and writing something that's good, not something that's over-compatible. I wish this would happen with windows.

That and the rather large development team required to meet the set aggressive deadlines of a release date. Large development teams are VERY difficult to manage (left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing). Often the core design engineer(s) don't necessarily agree with a single unified strategy. This shows in the final quality of the release product.

Yeah, there's team management and mediocrity among coders to consider. I've been part of large dev teams so I know this goes without saying. In windows case for all versions and I do mean ALL versions, it's mostly a case of a really poor outside design. For those not familiar with the term "outside design" think "hierarchical structure" of the OS. It is now and always has been worse than anything else on the market and computer scientists have been complaining about it since day one really.

When I hear terms like "dodgy code" however my focus of attention goes directly to the backdoors purposely set into the system specially designed for access by the US secret government (or alphabet agencies as some refer to them as). This isn't conspiracy theory as we've busted them doing it countless times in the past - so while it is "conspiracy" it's not theoretical. I suppose Apple is involved in this as well however though I haven't heard anything about it. I guess Linux is the safe bet in this regard of "dodgy code" where access to the source code is readily available and many people compile their own cores.

The microsoft company itself and the bill and melisa gates foundation is the reason I refuse to actively or knowing purchase or use any of their products. They're heavily involved in racially selective eugenics and aim to depopulate countries and continents on large scales. We had that same problem (from basically the same group) in the 1930's or so and we took care of it. I wonder why no one thinks about it now - maybe because it's painted on a background of "health care" with shallow guise phrases like "family planning" and "disease prevention"? Anyway, I for one am paying attention. Microsoft? No thanks!

 

[Bifurcator]

Ahh yes I know what you mean. I wonder how many coders are on the job of the OS compared to Apple's OS team. Would make for some interesting comparisons.

There are close to about 18,000 "apple employees". There are about 650 in the engineering dept. What they all do is more diverse - that's just the rounded number of checks cut in Jan 08. The 18K includes sales, support, and corporate for example and of the 650 I'm sure there are graphic designers, technical writers, or even assistants and receptionists in the mix. I also am not clear if that is the 61% that occupies the geographical location known as the USA or if that includes the other 39% abroad - when discussing the engineering dept. The 18K is a world wide figure.

Microsoft with their fingers in MANY MANY more pies (DNA research and "public health" included), I'm sure is much more massive.

 

[usayit]

oh here we go again.... :er:

 

[peterbj7]

The microsoft company itself and the bill and melisa gates foundation is the reason I refuse to actively or knowing purchase or use any of their products. They're heavily involved in racially selective eugenics and aim to depopulate countries and continents on large scales. We had that same problem (from basically the same group) in the 1930's or so and we took care of it. I wonder why no one thinks about it now - maybe because it's painted on a background of "health care" with shallow guise phrases like "family planning" and "disease prevention"? Anyway, I for one am paying attention. Microsoft? No thanks!

I think the reason is that most people don't know about it. I didn't until i read your post - my view is simply based on the lamentable quality and devious nature of the product. Can you say more about MS's dubious activities, or give references?