We give extra credit to

[gsgary]

Sorry, but I don't think it's possible to roll my eyes harder at that.

At what point do we call bull**** on someone who insists that something is art simply because he or she has declared it so? I could pick up a piece of food that fell off the floor, say it's a statement on our modern wasteful society, and proclaim, "It is Art!" Is that really art, just because I said so?

It requires more than just thought. There has to be a measure of skill and effort to communicate that thought. If someone chooses a medium that is more difficult to work with than another, then works to gain the skills to effectively communicate through that medium, shouldn't that person's efforts be recognized in some way? That doesn't mean that the person who communicates through a less difficult medium gets slighted, but there should be an acknowledgement of effort in any endeavor, not just art.

Effort, of course, is not the be all and end all. Any teacher worth her salt would not give an A grade for effort alone. There has to be quality as well. But let's say two students earn a B at the end of my course. One of them started out as maybe a B- and improved a bit to earn a B. The work comes relatively easy and they don't stretch their skills particularly far. The other student started out handing in F work, really dismal. But the student worked really hard and improved a LOT, clawing her way up to a B. Which student deserves more credit? Which one should be more proud of that B?

Two final images might be equally beautiful, but which person worked harder to get to that final image?

I don't want to even touch the idea of what is ultimately more difficult, film or digital. It depends. I don't discount the skill a person has with Photoshop, for example. For some people, editing at a computer will be a much harder task than editing manually in a darkroom - or vice versa. But for me, it's not ALL about the final image. I think it is actually disrespectful to completely discount the effort someone has put into that final image, no matter where those efforts lay.

What about Damien Hurst and Tracy Emen their art is rubbish but they make a fortune

 

[limr]

Sorry, but I don't think it's possible to roll my eyes harder at that.

At what point do we call bull**** on someone who insists that something is art simply because he or she has declared it so? I could pick up a piece of food that fell off the floor, say it's a statement on our modern wasteful society, and proclaim, "It is Art!" Is that really art, just because I said so?

It requires more than just thought. There has to be a measure of skill and effort to communicate that thought. If someone chooses a medium that is more difficult to work with than another, then works to gain the skills to effectively communicate through that medium, shouldn't that person's efforts be recognized in some way? That doesn't mean that the person who communicates through a less difficult medium gets slighted, but there should be an acknowledgement of effort in any endeavor, not just art.

Effort, of course, is not the be all and end all. Any teacher worth her salt would not give an A grade for effort alone. There has to be quality as well. But let's say two students earn a B at the end of my course. One of them started out as maybe a B- and improved a bit to earn a B. The work comes relatively easy and they don't stretch their skills particularly far. The other student started out handing in F work, really dismal. But the student worked really hard and improved a LOT, clawing her way up to a B. Which student deserves more credit? Which one should be more proud of that B?

Two final images might be equally beautiful, but which person worked harder to get to that final image?

I don't want to even touch the idea of what is ultimately more difficult, film or digital. It depends. I don't discount the skill a person has with Photoshop, for example. For some people, editing at a computer will be a much harder task than editing manually in a darkroom - or vice versa. But for me, it's not ALL about the final image. I think it is actually disrespectful to completely discount the effort someone has put into that final image, no matter where those efforts lay.

What about Damien Hurst and Tracy Emen their art is rubbish but they make a fortune

Who cares? I never said anything about monetary compensation or market forces. My eyes roll regardless of how much money one does or doesn't make.

 

[gsgary]

Sorry, but I don't think it's possible to roll my eyes harder at that.

At what point do we call bull**** on someone who insists that something is art simply because he or she has declared it so? I could pick up a piece of food that fell off the floor, say it's a statement on our modern wasteful society, and proclaim, "It is Art!" Is that really art, just because I said so?

It requires more than just thought. There has to be a measure of skill and effort to communicate that thought. If someone chooses a medium that is more difficult to work with than another, then works to gain the skills to effectively communicate through that medium, shouldn't that person's efforts be recognized in some way? That doesn't mean that the person who communicates through a less difficult medium gets slighted, but there should be an acknowledgement of effort in any endeavor, not just art.

Effort, of course, is not the be all and end all. Any teacher worth her salt would not give an A grade for effort alone. There has to be quality as well. But let's say two students earn a B at the end of my course. One of them started out as maybe a B- and improved a bit to earn a B. The work comes relatively easy and they don't stretch their skills particularly far. The other student started out handing in F work, really dismal. But the student worked really hard and improved a LOT, clawing her way up to a B. Which student deserves more credit? Which one should be more proud of that B?

Two final images might be equally beautiful, but which person worked harder to get to that final image?

I don't want to even touch the idea of what is ultimately more difficult, film or digital. It depends. I don't discount the skill a person has with Photoshop, for example. For some people, editing at a computer will be a much harder task than editing manually in a darkroom - or vice versa. But for me, it's not ALL about the final image. I think it is actually disrespectful to completely discount the effort someone has put into that final image, no matter where those efforts lay.

At the art school my sister in law went to (one of the best in the world) Goldsmiths you cannot just make a piece of art without explaining everything about it

 

[runnah]

At the art school my sister in law went to (one of the best in the world) Goldsmiths you cannot just make a piece of art without explaining everything about it

So you have to be more salesman and self promoter than artist.

 

[limr]

At the art school my sister in law went to (one of the best in the world) Goldsmiths you cannot just make a piece of art without explaining everything about it

So you have to be more salesman and self promoter than artist.

Stand up philosopher?

 

[runnah]

At the art school my sister in law went to (one of the best in the world) Goldsmiths you cannot just make a piece of art without explaining everything about it

So you have to be more salesman and self promoter than artist.

Stand up philosopher?

Something like that.

I've dabbled in the art world a bit when I was younger and it was just disgusting. Talent-less hacks getting gallery showings because they knew the right people. People who were so pack minded that they said they liked things just to seem cool and attack those who didn't like something. Very gross and dirty.

Fun fact, I aced an advanced art class in college that was mostly studio time and monthly C&C sessions. I spent my studio time experimenting with recreational beverages and substances then the day before the C&C i'd whip something together last minute. I was gifted at BS so I was able to talk up any piece of crap I came up with. Killed the "art" scene for me.

 

[The_Traveler]

I forgot the sandals.

 

[limr]

For those who have somehow missed this piece of brilliance...

 

[71M]

What about Damien Hurst and Tracy Emen their art is rubbish but they make a fortune

Sir Nicholas Serota Makes an Acquisitions Decision...



I like Emin, her drunken rant on Ch4's After Dark, back in the day, was quality ..bless her.
And Keith Allen's on the Late Show also, while we're touching on the subject :thumbup: He's a mate of Hirst.