Websites similar to www.keh.com?

Discussion in 'Photography Equipment & Products' started by Seth Baldwin, Dec 31, 2018.

  1. Seth Baldwin

    Seth Baldwin TPF Noob!

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    Hello

    Trying to evaluate my options for purchasing a used medium format film camera.
    The most obvious first option to most is www.keh.com for their high range of stock. However due to their inability to disclose critical information, such as shutter count, accurate product observations, I don't seek to take the risk of purchasing from them.

    Any recommendations for other used camera services that supply shutter count for example? Not even Japanese sellers on ebay supply this information and it's a big issue.

    Cheers.


     
  2. dunfly

    dunfly No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Have you contacted them directly to ask about shutter count of a specific camera? I have never purchased from KEH but they have a good reputation. When I look at used equipment, I also check the used departments at Adorama and B & H. They give a condition rating that seems pretty accurate, but not shutter counts. I think it is something you would just have to call about if you had a specific camera in mind.
     
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  3. Seth Baldwin

    Seth Baldwin TPF Noob!

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    That may have been a possibility a decade ago, but due to their increase of stock over past 5 to 7 years, they've become unable of maintain the necessary staff needed to push stock out on demand with accurate condition assessments. They certainly have a great return policy that I trust, but I don't believe the risk of return is worth the time if there's a more reliable solution out there.
     
  4. Braineack

    Braineack Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    adorama. bhphotovideo. mpb.com. usedprophoto.com. lensauthority.com. all the lens rental places. prophotosupply.

    there are tons of options -- any of which will disclose information if you email/call and ask.
     
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  5. Seth Baldwin

    Seth Baldwin TPF Noob!

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    Cheers mate!
     
  6. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    How do you expect them to get a shutter count on a film camera? That sounds basically impossible, to me at least. Shutter counts are a digital era thing, for digital cameras.
     
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  7. Seth Baldwin

    Seth Baldwin TPF Noob!

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    Estimating how many rolls they've shot over the years.
     
  8. greybeard

    greybeard Been spending a lot of time on here!

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  9. Derrel

    Derrel Mr. Rain Cloud

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    Estimating how many rolls a film camera has shot over the years is pretty much an impossibility...
    Many medium format rollfilm SLRs use interchangeable backs...
    MANY medium-format rollfilm SLRs use a shutter within EACH Lens...

    Your desire, a shutter count, on a film camera, makes no sense. On a digital camera, a shutter count is a normal, natural,easy thing to want or expect, but expecting or wanting a shutter count, or a rolls-of-film-shot count from KEH, makes no sense, due to the nature of film, and film cameras, and cameras that use shutters located within each and every lens, in many cases.

    Many medium format rollfilm cameras are a body, a magazine, a lens with a shutter, and a viewfinder, and then either a built-in advance mechanism, or an add-on advance mechanism, or a hand-crank mechanism. A camera body can have one film magazine (aka "back") used for a decade, and then the user/seller could replace that back, and sell the camera, and the camera body and/or the "back", would look pretty new.A camera can be used in-studio, or carried outdoors a lot. A camera can be covered with gaffer tape, to minimize wear, or protected by a carrying case. A camera can be CARRIED a LOT, but not SHOT much! I have a used Nikon D800 that has terrible body wear, and a crack in the battery compartment, and is five years old....but when I bought it, it had a mere 30,000 clicks on it!

    With film, film rolls and developing costs money; so much that most well-used film cameras that were NOT "wedding cameras", have pretty low click-counts, compared to digital cameras. My iPhone has 69,000 clicks on it...it the past 18 months.

    Where a magazine attaches to a camera body, there is often some wear, where the lock-in lugs go in,and where they are sometimes slightly not aligned as magazines are changed. Some magazines use "inserts", some do not. And so on and so on...this is why "estimating" use can be...impossible. it's not as if KEH can give you a shutter count. If you buy a BGN camera (bargain-grade) it will be heavily, used. They have a grading system that is fair, conservative, and which the rest of the country uses, with mostly good results, I think, based on 35-plus years of comments I've read about KEH.

    Your original post and comments are, I think, unfair, and unreasonable. You wrote about KEH: "However due to their inability to disclose critical information, such as shutter count, accurate product observations, I don't seek to take the risk of purchasing from them."

    They have accurate product descriptions in 1) their for-sale rating system on each and every product 2)their price relative to other identical models and 3)verbal comments in addition to their product condition rating.

    They have a pretty good returns system. When buying used equipment, "buying condition" is what many people consider to be their normal modus operandi; an EXC+ item is certainly less-used than a Good or BGN piece of gear.

    KEH states that their equipment grading system is, "the industry standard". Here is the page for their grading system:

    Grading System

    Take a look, and see how KEH's verbal ratings correspond, exactly, to the ratings used by B&H Photo, Adorama, and Amazon.
     
  10. pendennis

    pendennis No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Don't think that would work, either. I've been on both ends dealing with KEH, and they've always been up front with condition (they consistently underrate), and when possible, I've discussed condition if I had a particular question.

    If you're buying used pro gear, you pretty much have to go by physical condition. I've seen some fairly rough examples that were mostly carried in the case, and not a lot of rolls through them. And, remember, a lot of medium format cameras are run with inserts, as well as film backs. When I ran a Mamiya RB, I seldom changed backs, instead keeping inserts loaded. If I had to change film mid-roll, that was a different story.
     
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  11. jcdeboever

    jcdeboever TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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  12. greybeard

    greybeard Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    With mechanical shutters I've always heard that you check the slow speeds like 1 sec etc. If they are good then the other speeds should be.
     

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