Wedding problem???

[manaheim]

...and people wonder why I don't shoot weddings.

Hey, a suggestion... get a GPS. Anytime you are in a business where your being there is critical there is basically no excuse to not have one of these. They are cheap, small, and easy to use.

It was one of the very first things I bought with money from my engagements and I very much consider it a part of my photography equipment.

 

[maytay20]

um I'd be really upset if I was the MIL also. You allowed her to sign the contract, she's upset you missed 2.5 hrs of work, and rightfully so.

How, though, 2.5 hrs?? Did you not stop at a gas station to ask directions? Did you not get on your gps and/or cell phone right away? I could understand maybe 15 mins or something.. but 2.5 hrs?! I'd be pretty upset.

The reception was 40 mins away. I do not have GPS, I did stop at multiple gas stations and got no were. Lets just say the jerks being payed $6 a hour could care less if I got were I needed to be. I also left voice mails on the brides cell phone. It took her 15 mins to call me back after I had traveled 40 mins the wrong way. So it tooks some time to get back were I needed to be.

 

[maytay20]

Hence the reason why we should tail the limo or whatever mode of conveyance the weding party chooses to use.

There was no limo. They took off in separate cars in different directions. No one even waited for me to get my camera in the bag before they all left. It is kinda hard to confirm everything when they booked less than 3 weeks before the wedding and didn't get addresses to me until a couple of days before the wedding.
I do take full blame for getting lost. I am not denying it.
It is the complaints about stuff like my shutter making noise during the ceremony ~ was I not supposed to take pictures of the ceremony?
With the wedding party disappearing after the ceremony it was agreed that they would do their thing with the receiving line then come directly back into the church to start formals. I had no idea that they were going to disappear. The priest didn't even know were they went.
The mom is also upset that I didn't force the B&G to take photos with their grand parents. She is blaming more than me getting lost on me is the point of the post. YES I got lost Yes I am sorry and had planned on compensating them. It has never happened before I have always fallowed someone AND had directions.
I am also being blamed for the church not turning the lights off during the ceremony, but from what I understand it is that church's policy to not turn off or dim the lights if there is a photographer. I did not say anything to the church about the lights.
Oh and the mom wants me to photoshop 550 photos in 3 days, but it was agreed that I would have them ready in 3 - 4 weeks.
I am calling and talking to the bride tomorrow. When I met with her she was pleading that I do her wedding since they had moved it from late November to May 31st they couldn't find a photographer that wasn't booked. I was very clear that I was still learning, showed her past weddings I have done and told her I was giving her a deal because I am still learning. I did NOT make it look like i was a seasoned pro. Maybe if my interview was with the mom she would not have hired me but it was with the bride. :meh:

 

[*Mike*]

Best advice I can give... Roll with this one however you have to in order get through it. Try not to refund anything, try to make them happy, and don't get yourself sued.

Then, get your game up to speed. Equipment, skill, insurance, organization, etc. Then, start charging as a professional and draw a better class of client.

Bottom line for me - they booked an inexperienced (we'll leave it at that ) photog for bottom dollar and got what they paid for. Now you both have to deal with the fallout, which sucks all around.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes...

 

[manaheim]

I think the advice people here are giving you on how to deal with this situation is generally sound, so I won't add to it, but...

Seriously, dude... you gotta get out of this victim mindset here. Yes, sure, people are being unreasonable and a lot of the things in this situation suck, but a HECK of a lot of them you could have avoided with some better planning.

Many of these things you can chalk up to experience... maybe you didn't know it would happen this way, and that's cool. You learn by making mistakes, but don't just get indignant, do things to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Get clerer contracts, get a GPS, print up some maps ahead of time, have more help on-site, etc.

If you're just going to rage against the situation you're less likely to learn from it.

Take your lumps, do your best, do a post mortem and do some things to make sure the liklihood of it happening again is reduced or nil.

 

[JerryPH]

mayay, how long have you been in photography vs in the business?

It seems to me that your photography skills may be adequate (said without having seen any of your pics), but that you suffer from less than adequate customer and business skills.

A few recommendations:

First rule... HE WHO PAYS THE INVOICE SIGNS THE CONTRACT. Accept no substitutes.

Second rule... ALMOST NEVER refund money. Offer services in compensation, but no refunds unless it is something blatantly your fault.

Third rule... Be the quintessential professional. Getting lost is your fault. Visit the locations at least once beforehand. A cheap full size GPS on the market goes for ~$175-$250. Microsoft Streets and Trips comes with a USB powered GPS and software that installs on your laptop for about $99.

I would never go into a job blind. The pro that I shadow goes a MINIMUM of once to each location and often goes twice if he is unsure or needs to get more info. He also goes at around the same time of day as the event.

Concerning Timing, learn to roll with the flow, BUT... I see the value of shooting the formals starting with with everyone there, and then removing people until I am left with only the B&G (the people sent away go to the reception and since you are left with the B&G, once finished with them, you go with them to their Grand Entrance, it is therefore, IMPOSSIBLE to miss!). Best way to do it, and also the fastest... but again, it depends on how good YOU are. As am example, I've seen 250 KEEPER pictures taken in 60 minutes by ONE person well organized and who knows how to direct the traffic. We're taking 250 FORMALS only!

Seems to me that you were also "told" a lot and were often lost before the event started? Did you not meet with the couple in advance and KNOW the sequence of events? Late or not, there is an order that would have been followed that you SHOULD have been aware of and therefore been able to stay 1 step ahead of.

Expectations: Was it not detailed in the contract or a separate SIGNED paper the "must have" formal shots in writing? It was your responsibility as a professional to ask and finalize this list, and to deliver. If you did not do so... you may have painted yourself into a corner.

A big mistake was verbally agreeing the contract with the B&G and then letting the mother sign. This opened you up to a world of hell.

Mostly, I see a series of beginner business errors that all put together gave you a wedding-zilla.

Perhaps you need to spend some time talking to more professionals and see how they do it and how to protect yourself. Join the WPPA and talk and learn to professional wedding photographers.. Consider taking a course on business and customer service excellence. Your photography may or maay not be incredible... but EVERY WEDDING YOU DO will end up the same until you learn the business end of the game properly.

 

[Socrates]

mayay, how long have you been in photography vs in the business?

She stated that she did seven weddings.

 

[JIP]

mayay, how long have you been in photography vs in the business?

It seems to me that your photography skills may be adequate (said without having seen any of your pics), but that you suffer from less than adequate customer and business skills.

A few recommendations:

First rule... HE WHO PAYS THE INVOICE SIGNS THE CONTRACT. Accept no substitutes.

Second rule... ALMOST NEVER refund money. Offer services in compensation, but no refunds unless it is something blatantly your fault.

Third rule... Be the quintessential professional. Getting lost is your fault. Visit the locations at least once beforehand. A cheap full size GPS on the market goes for ~$175-$250. Microsoft Streets and Trips comes with a USB powered GPS and software that installs on your laptop for about $99.

I would never go into a job blind. The pro that I shadow goes a MINIMUM of once to each location and often goes twice if he is unsure or needs to get more info. He also goes at around the same time of day as the event.

Concerning Timing, learn to roll with the flow, BUT... I see the value of shooting the formals starting with with everyone there, and then removing people until I am left with only the B&G (the people sent away go to the reception and since you are left with the B&G, once finished with them, you go with them to their Grand Entrance, it is therefore, IMPOSSIBLE to miss!). Best way to do it, and also the fastest... but again, it depends on how good YOU are. As am example, I've seen 250 KEEPER pictures taken in 60 minutes by ONE person well organized and who knows how to direct the traffic. We're taking 250 FORMALS only!

Seems to me that you were also "told" a lot and were often lost before the event started? Did you not meet with the couple in advance and KNOW the sequence of events? Late or not, there is an order that would have been followed that you SHOULD have been aware of and therefore been able to stay 1 step ahead of.

Expectations: Was it not detailed in the contract or a separate SIGNED paper the "must have" formal shots in writing? It was your responsibility as a professional to ask and finalize this list, and to deliver. If you did not do so... you may have painted yourself into a corner.

A big mistake was verbally agreeing the contract with the B&G and then letting the mother sign. This opened you up to a world of hell.

Mostly, I see a series of beginner business errors that all put together gave you a wedding-zilla.

Perhaps you need to spend some time talking to more professionals and see how they do it and how to protect yourself. Join the WPPA and talk and learn to professional wedding photographers.. Consider taking a course on business and customer service excellence. Your photography may or maay not be incredible... but EVERY WEDDING YOU DO will end up the same until you learn the business end of the game properly.

Well said.....

 

[JerryPH]

She stated that she did seven weddings.

7 shadowed weddings? 7 friends? Over 1 or 17 years? 7 free weddings for friends or 7 PAID weddings as a professional... because it all comes to bear.

I wasn't trying to be more "in your face" than normal... but I want to know if people even considered the business side of things before walking into these obvious legal traps. I hear about them all the time... and I am not even a pro!

 

[husky_mom]

I think talking to the bride is the most important thing...I mean it´s HER wedding pics... and no matter if mom is upset if she still wants them and is fine with it she shall have them....

I understand mom being upset and she was in her right to make out her voice... but to me the bride has the last word about the matter....

 

[JIP]

I think talking to the bride is the most important thing...I mean it´s HER wedding pics... and no matter if mom is upset if she still wants them and is fine with it she shall have them....

I understand mom being upset and she was in her right to make out her voice... but to me the bride has the last word about the matter....

Never done any weddings yourself I guess.....

 

[*Mike*]

I understand mom being upset and she was in her right to make out her voice... but to me the bride has the last word about the matter....

This is a nice thought. But, when you get your butt sued off by the person you're contracted to, it won't really matter. If a studio has a contract with the mom, and the contract doesn't state otherwise, then the bride is a non-issue.

Expectations: Was it not detailed in the contract or a separate SIGNED paper the "must have" formal shots in writing? It was your responsibility as a professional to ask and finalize this list, and to deliver.

This is never a good idea. You don't want to contractually obligate yourself to a set of shots - when taking them may end up being beyond your control. Set expectations, discuss a "wish list" of shots, but don't legally obligate yourself to shots when you can't control all the variables (grandma getting drunk and passing out, the flowergirl playing hide and seek during alter shots, the bride is an emotional nut and decides to cut shots short, etc.)

 

[JerryPH]

This is never a good idea. You don't want to contractually obligate yourself to a set of shots - when taking them may end up being beyond your control.

I agree, but thats what a good contract is all about... " outside extenuating circumstances, here is a list of shots we agree to provide, based on your requests..."

I have seen 6 contracts so far (still searching for more), so far, all are very close in content.

Some could in theory be less formal, but they do the opposite... open up the legal disputes to near anything and anyone.

Judging by what I have seen, the tighter the contract in any business, the better one is protected (both sides).

 

[*Mike*]

I agree, but thats what a good contract is all about... " outside extenuating circumstances, here is a list of shots we agree to provide, based on your requests..."

I have seen 6 contracts so far (still searching for more), so far, all are very close in content.

Some could in theory be less formal, but they do the opposite... open up the legal disputes to near anything and anyone.

Judging by what I have seen, the tighter the contract in any business, the better one is protected (both sides).

I would never advocate anything "less formal." In fact, I think it's bit crazy to shoot weddings with a contract that wasn't screened and approved by your lawyer and with plenty of insurance.

My opinion, no shots should be guaranteed. You're a lot less likely to be sued if the contract explicitly states so.

This isn't a matter of how "tight" the contract is... Although, a definitive statement that no shot is guaranteed is probably as "tight" as you can get. (Conditional statements are a lot more arguable.) It's about setting expectations. A wedding isn't a controlled shot, it's a very unpredictable, dynamic, event. )

 

[tirediron]

...and people wonder why I don't shoot weddings.

Hey, a suggestion... get a GPS. Anytime you are in a business where your being there is critical there is basically no excuse to not have one of these. They are cheap, small, and easy to use.

It was one of the very first things I bought with money from my engagements and I very much consider it a part of my photography equipment.

Ditto, and ditto!