What cam setup for undercover shots?

[Deo]

M9-p(rangefinders) with 35mm on hang on the neck triggered wirelessly.

 

[Steve5D]

Ask permission, give them a copy of the photos on one of their machines before you leave. Let them know that the idea of letting you shoot photos in the casino gives them an advantage to possibly catch cheaters in the act. Emphasize that you are not there to play, but only to shoot.

People only restrict your camera use if they distrust your intentions. If you make your intentions very clear, you're golden.

Simply put, if we're talking Las Vegas or Atlantic City, there's no way in Hell they're going to let you shoot in their casino. Period. It absolutely won't happen, so don't harbor any illusion that it will. I was stopped from shooting just inside the front entrance; the front lobby, of the Luxor. There wasn't a gaming table within 250 feet of me.

The idea that allowing someone to shoot in the casino could help catch cheaters, well, that's profoundly silly. Have you ever seen the security mechanisms in Vegas casinos? I can assure you; and I speak from experience, what you see on the Discovery Channel "Vegas Cheaters" (not actually the title) show is a fraction of the security measures they have in place. There's no way; absolutely no way that they'll say "Hey, maybe we can catch more cheaters if we let Joe Six-Pack here take some pictures. Seriously, that's laughable.

Accept the fact that, if you want photos from inside the casino, you'll have to sneak them. Then, accept the fact that, if you get caught, you're going to be charged with a crime, and Vegas and Atlantic City casinos don't have a history of not pushing the envelope when it comes to getting people charged.

I honestly don't think you'll get your legs broken, but you're delusional if you don't think you'll be in a tremendous amount of trouble if you're caught doing it after being told not to.

And casino security guards are very, very good at what they do...

 

[AaronLLockhart]

Ask permission, give them a copy of the photos on one of their machines before you leave. Let them know that the idea of letting you shoot photos in the casino gives them an advantage to possibly catch cheaters in the act. Emphasize that you are not there to play, but only to shoot.

People only restrict your camera use if they distrust your intentions. If you make your intentions very clear, you're golden.

Simply put, if we're talking Las Vegas or Atlantic City, there's no way in Hell they're going to let you shoot in their casino. Period. It absolutely won't happen, so don't harbor any illusion that it will. I was stopped from shooting just inside the front entrance; the front lobby, of the Luxor. There wasn't a gaming table within 250 feet of me.

The idea that allowing someone to shoot in the casino could help catch cheaters, well, that's profoundly silly. Have you ever seen the security mechanisms in Vegas casinos? I can assure you; and I speak from experience, what you see on the Discovery Channel "Vegas Cheaters" (not actually the title) show is a fraction of the security measures they have in place. There's no way; absolutely no way that they'll say "Hey, maybe we can catch more cheaters if we let Joe Six-Pack here take some pictures. Seriously, that's laughable.

Accept the fact that, if you want photos from inside the casino, you'll have to sneak them. Then, accept the fact that, if you get caught, you're going to be charged with a crime, and Vegas and Atlantic City casinos don't have a history of not pushing the envelope when it comes to getting people charged.

I honestly don't think you'll get your legs broken, but you're delusional if you don't think you'll be in a tremendous amount of trouble if you're caught doing it after being told not to.

And casino security guards are very, very good at what they do...

What you're saying would be 100% truth in a flawless and perfect world. However, it's not, and I know it's not from experience. By this logic, you are telling me that a random pedestrian can't catch illicit activity going on through photography in the loophole that everyone's eyes are not set on what is going on, except you caught it by accident.

Security may be tight, but it's not perfect, and each security member ONLY has 2 eyes. There is no possible way, even with HUNDREDS of security guards, that they will see everything.... Which is EXACTLY why cheating in casinos still exists. If security were that good, no one would cheat.

So, laugh if you want, but you are the one who is not understanding the clarity of the situation.

Adding, if they tell you that they don't want you to take photos, then don't take them. However, the worst thing they can do is say "no." There is absolutely no harm in trying. These guys didn't have any difficulty getting in to take them:
http://www.zimbio.com/pictures/CsrR...Hit+Economic+Downturn/erBusMrprtG/Jody+Selkow


And I guess this guy had to "sneak" his D40 in for this shot too didn't he?
http://robcartwrightphotography.wordpress.com/2012/05/08/vegas-wednesday-14-march-365-360-day-234/

 

[snowbear]

What you're saying would be 100% truth in a flawless and perfect world. However, it's not, and I know it's not from experience. By this logic, you are telling me that a random pedestrian can't catch illicit activity going on through photography in the loophole that everyone's eyes are not set on what is going on, except you caught it by accident.

Security may be tight, but it's not perfect, and each security member ONLY has 2 eyes. There is no possible way, even with HUNDREDS of security guards, that they will see everything.... Which is EXACTLY why cheating in casinos still exists. If security were that good, no one would cheat.

So, laugh if you want, but you are the one who is not understanding the clarity of the situation.

Adding, if they tell you that they don't want you to take photos, then don't take them. However, the worst thing they can do is say "no." There is absolutely no harm in trying. These guys didn't have any difficulty getting in to take them:
Jody Selkow Pictures - Las Vegas Casinos Hit By Economic Downturn - Zimbio


And I guess this guy had to "sneak" his D40 in for this shot too didn't he?
Vegas: Wednesday 14 March (365.360° Day 234) « Rob Cartwright Photography

Your D5000 isn't much bigger than the D40; I say throw the 50 on it and go for it. I'm looking forward to seeing your shots.

 

[AaronLLockhart]

Your D5000 isn't much bigger than the D40; I say throw the 50 on it and go for it. I'm looking forward to seeing your shots.

I don't live anywhere near a casino. However, I will say that if I did, I wouldn't be opposed to trying it.

Here's some food for thought:
Turns out that photography is not banned inside Nevada casinos | Pixiq

 

[Overread]

Casinos are private property - each one is free to allow or disallow photography upon their premises .

 

[Steve5D]

Ask permission, give them a copy of the photos on one of their machines before you leave. Let them know that the idea of letting you shoot photos in the casino gives them an advantage to possibly catch cheaters in the act. Emphasize that you are not there to play, but only to shoot.

People only restrict your camera use if they distrust your intentions. If you make your intentions very clear, you're golden.

Yeah, just tell 'em what you're doing and they'll have no problem.

The best term I can come up with to describe that is "a crock".

And it's a crock because the one thing you haven't given them, and will probably not be able to come up with, is a reason for them to trust you...

What you're saying would be 100% truth in a flawless and perfect world. However, it's not, and I know it's not from experience. By this logic, you are telling me that a random pedestrian can't catch illicit activity going on through photography in the loophole that everyone's eyes are not set on what is going on, except you caught it by accident.

Well, then he'll have to give up that memory card, because on-duty security personnel don't have time to review and inspect images from some tourist who thinks he caught someone cheating. No, that'll be handled by someone else who, invariably, will not be available. And, if the person is available, and the tourist does catch someone cheating, that card (not just an image or two) now becomes evidence, and, the odds of that card being returned in a timely fashion are slim to none...

Security may be tight, but it's not perfect, and each security member ONLY has 2 eyes. There is no possible way, even with HUNDREDS of security guards, that they will see everything.... Which is EXACTLY why cheating in casinos still exists. If security were that good, no one would cheat.

Again, it's profoundly clear that you have no idea what makes up "security" in a Vegas casino...

So, laugh if you want

I do, and I am...

but you are the one who is not understanding the clarity of the situation.

Sorry, Chief, but I've seen the security mechanisms in place at one of the larger casinos on the Vegas strip. It rivals anything you would expect to see at, say, a secure military installation.

Yeah, cheating happens. Those who do it, more often than not, get caught, and they're not caught by a casino patron. My point wasn't that someone wouldn't luck out and catch someone cheating, it was that the casino won't want to be bothered allowing someone to walk around shooting pictures on the off chance that it would happen.

The reason for the casinos to prohibit photography is also, in large part, because a lot of people don't care to have photos of them gambling flying out in the ether.

The casino is private property, and their rules need to be respected. Anyone who chooses to not respect them, like the OP, better man-up and realize the very possible ramifications of his actions...

Adding, if they tell you that they don't want you to take photos, then don't take them. However, the worst thing they can do is say "no." There is absolutely no harm in trying. These guys didn't have any difficulty getting in to take them:
Jody Selkow Pictures - Las Vegas Casinos Hit By Economic Downturn - Zimbio

Well, that shot is obviously part of a news story. The news outlet would've contacted the casino they wanted to visit. They would ask about getting a photo. The casino could then easily stage a shot using two willing participants. Ever see a commercial for the Navy or Air Force, and they're showing some guy in front of a scope watching a radar display? Well, those aren't radar displays at all. They're test patterns. The shots are staged. Likewise, staging shots in casinos is not uncommon at all, provided that prior arrangements are made, and that a very clear purpose is stipulated.

"I might catch a cheater" is not a clear and compelling reason...

And I guess this guy had to "sneak" his D40 in for this shot too didn't he?
Vegas: Wednesday 14 March (365.360° Day 234) « Rob Cartwright Photography

I didn't say anyone had to sneak anything into anywhere. I don't know of a single Vegas casino which does not allow someone to carry a camera into the casino. They do, however, all have rules that say you can't use it.

Now, let's look at the shot you think was taken in an obvious, unhidden fashion. I've taken shots exactly like that. Put the camera down on a machine two or three machines down, and snap the picture. You don't worry about composition because that can be fixed later. Maybe you put the camera on a folded up coat to raise it up a little. If you're not looking through the viewfinder, yeah, it can be damn near impossible to stop. I have no doubt that the second photo was shot in a fashion similar to what I described.

I've seen two people stopped in casinos with their cameras. One was a woman who was being very overt. She was older, and it was pretty clear she was part of some tour group. Casino security swept in briskly, and stopped her from taking pictures. They were polite and professional, and the woman put her camera back in her purse and left it there. The other was a guy who was "sneaking" photos. His bad luck, though, had him sneaking a shot right next to the Pit Boss. The Pit Boss called security, who came in and took the guy away.

His friends were still standing there an hour later when we decided to leave.

Now, of those two photographers, which one do you think had the more enjoyable visit to Vegas?

 

[AaronLLockhart]

Now, of those two photographers, which one do you think had the more enjoyable visit to Vegas?

Everything you have just said reverts right back to the very first thing I said in this conversation... Ask permission. They are either going to grant it, or they will not grant it. However, There is no crime or "charge" in asking. I'm not saying it's alright to take photographs in a casino against the casino's wishes. The same that if a zoo didn't want me photographing their animals, I would respectfully withdraw my camera from my face.

However, your initial post implied that it is impossible to take photos inside of a Las Vegas or Atlantic City casino, with or without permission. Which is obviously not the case, considering there are candid photos from inside Las Vegas and Atlantic City casinos, taken from angles that are obviously not "spray and pray" material.

As for your first photo, the first two I could see being staged, but are you seriously telling me that you believe that all of the other people in the background of that photo were staged to be there? I have yet to meet a single photographer that is that elaborate in their composition planning.

 

[slackercruster]

I was not thinking about photos of cheaters at all. Was just looking for some good shots of gamblers. Can you go around as ask people to let you shoot them or will security stop you even if permission is given? I never asked anyone. Was just stopped from random shooting...at a dog track inside the casino!

 

[Steve5D]

Everything you have just said reverts right back to the very first thing I said in this conversation... Ask permission. They are either going to grant it, or they will not grant it.

They are not going to.

Think of your odds if you were to ask United if you could fly the plane. Sure, there's absolutely no harm in asking, but's it's not going to happen...

However, There is no crime or "charge" in asking. I'm not saying it's alright to take photographs in a casino against the casino's wishes. The same that if a zoo didn't want me photographing their animals, I would respectfully withdraw my camera from my face.

But would you still shoot?

The second photo you linked to above was a photo that someone had to sneak...

However, your initial post implied that it is impossible to take photos inside of a Las Vegas or Atlantic City casino, with or without permission.

It did no such thing. My post basically stated that there's no way in Hell that security is going to let you shoot just because you ask. Ain't happenin'...

Which is obviously not the case, considering there are candid photos from inside Las Vegas and Atlantic City casinos, taken from angles that are obviously not "spray and pray" material.

And those photos are done with the casino's permission, and they are controlled by the casino.

I can guarantee you that casino personnel were right there when that photo of the two older women was taken. They're not going to give a photographer free reign to walk around and snap pictures...

As for your first photo, the first two I could see being staged, but are you seriously telling me that you believe that all of the other people in the background of that photo were staged to be there? I have yet to meet a single photographer that is that elaborate in their composition planning.

They may well have been, yes.

What you're failing tpo wrap your head around is that the photographer, such as the one who took the photo of the two older women atr the slot machines, gets to shoot only what the casino says he can shoot. T

he photographer doesn't stage the shot at all, the casino does. And I can also guarantee you that the photo that gets published is a shot that's been approved by the casino...

 

[Steve5D]

I was not thinking about photos of cheaters at all. Was just looking for some good shots of gamblers. Can you go around as ask people to let you shoot them or will security stop you even if permission is given? I never asked anyone. Was just stopped from random shooting...at a dog track inside the casino!

You can ask all the patron you want. If you lift your camera to shoot, security's gonna' be on you like a bum on a sandwich.

The casinos don't want photography within the casino. You should respect that...