What does 'Alien Bees' gear mean to the photography world?

[Don Kondra]

Which "set" are you referring to ?

If it is this one http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/commercial-product-photography/188723-grandfather-clock.html

All four images are the same wood tone on my calibrated Dell 2209wa monitor. The backgrounds are not.

What are you using for a monitor ?

Cheers, Don

 

[Montana]

I use AB's, but if I did nothing but studio work, I wouldn't. Portraiture is a very small, almost minute, portion of my photography so I work around their issues. The color cast in my experience is only really visible if I have my lights set in a drastically different power setting from each other. i.e., one near the lowest setting with one near the high end.


Oh, and the do come in black so color is a non-issue. LOL

But I do agree, hobbiests can get by on them and they are great for as a learning tool introduction into lighting.. But serious studio work demands 10k or more in lighting equipment.

 

[IgsEMT]

READ FEW OTHERS & MY TAKE:
ABs aren't the best but it isn't worse. Personally, I'll take dynalites even white-lights over ABs any day. White lights I think are better and a bit more expensive and dyna-pack is defiantly more pricier. So it depends on you and your need & your budget.

 

[NateWagner]

Alien Bees have one other thing going for them that nobody has mentioned (to my knowledge as I didn't read Derrel's extremely lengthy post) as of yet. That is, they have excellent customer service. If you call them up and say you have a problem with the item they will replace it and send it right back to you.

Also, for the color shift, pretty much all (with the exception of High end lights such as Profoto etc.) have color shift. One thing to know about the color shift though is it is typically only noticable when you are in the lower ranges of power. When you are at quarter/half/full light you're typically fine.

Also, in contrast to what was said earlier, I would suggest that Alien Bees has a great deal of power for their price. The AB800 at 400ws is more inexpensive than most other similar quality lights.

They also have very high power lights going up to AB1600 (800 ws) and I believe there is an AB3200 (if not there is definitely a WL 3200) which is made by Paul Buff at 1600 WS (3200 effective whatever that is supposed to mean).

The higher end ones, such as the 1600 can also be used on half power such that it acts like an 800 (thereby also having the color shift at a much lower power level, and more of a usable range).

The color shift can be a problem, but, typically if you know when it happens and why it happens you can work around it.

I would be quite surprised if when you saw the color shift if your instructor was shooting at a normal shutter speed with the power at a reasonable level.

 

[NateWagner]

well, and of course you would take white lighting over ab's anyday. They are the higher end version of the same thing. Made by the same guy. That's like saying I would take a lexus over a toyota.

 

[shmne]

I think this thread brought up a lot of really great opinions.
Looking at what has been said, a quick breakdown would be as follows:

1. ABs are great lights for the intended market, AKA enthusiast - advanced novice
2. They are not seen as pro quality mostly because they are a bit silly in make. Also, the color cast is a problem to many pro level photographers (this is something that I have seen many times, through testing).
3. The effective / true rating system is misleading, however the true w/s is accurate.
4. They have top notch customer service.
5. They are made to have easily attached filters and light modifiers (this is another point showing that it really is made for a more entry level demographic)
6. They just don't have the raw power needed.

There was a point made that a poor craftsman blames his tools, however I do believe most would agree this is one situation where the tool is limited in many areas to be considered a full "pro" quality light set. Also, I'd like to point out I am not picking on the person who said this, because this is something even I considered.

The biggest problem is that they will never overpower the sun, you can't throw them long distances, they have a very long flash duration, and while all flashes have a poor color cast at low powers Alien Bees is known to have the largest fluctuation (not a literal "The largest" but more along the lines of a reputable brand that everyone knows). When it gets down to it, a pro quality light needs to be there for the photographer, and these lights can only be there for you for so long before they simply can not do what you want them to do.

They are the best for people really getting into the swing of lighting and craving something more powerful than a flash that sits on your camera. It was already stated that these are the best to get your feet wet with, but expect to be upgrading if you wish to continue improving advanced lighting techniques. If you don't want to go any farther than extreme enthusiast these will probably be the only lights you ever want or need, and if that is the case you're better off than the rest of us who are selling blood just so we can buy the raw power we crave!

I hope this all has answered your question OP, and I really hope this clears up a lot about Alien Bees strobes in general. Also thank you for asking! Threads like this help me learn more and solidify what I already know

 

[Derrel]

There's a pretty good article on buying Alien Bees as your first set of "big lights" until you know what you really want, written by the Strobist blogspot's owner and founder David Hobby. The article is here: Strobist: Choosing Big Lights: AlienBees

Taking the actual amount of stored electrical charge and multiplying it by 2.5 times and calling that the "effective" watt-seconds is disingenuous,at best. What kind of company sells a farmer a 55 gallon drum of farm diesel and tells him that the drum contains 137.5 gallons of fuel?

Why would a company build a 10,000 gallon backyard pool, take the customer's money,and tell the customer he just payed for a 25,000 gallon pool? Watt-seconds refers to the QUANTITY, the volume, of stored energy. Looked at another way: how can an offshore-made but USA-assembled monolight manage to be 2.5 times MORE-efficient than the acknowledged professional lights made in Europe or the USA? Who is kidding who here?

I would really love to hear how a low-priced product can possibly be two and one half times BETTER at turning electricity into light output than a high-quality professional light unit. By what means does PCB manage to better other flash makers from all around the world, by a 2.5x factor? Has Buff, a 73 year old entrepreneur, managed to find a secret that hundreds of electrical engineers have overlooked, for literally decades?

Like the article above mentions, the Strobist founder likes his A-B's, but he admits that he really "wants" Profoto gear, and is willing to shell out $8,000 for it and is considering Profoto's promotional incentives. One thing also noted in that article is the comment that Alien Bee owners are often very hostile to others who look at or buy other flash systems, for whatever reasons. People who own A-B's often accuse others of "bashing" their 'Bees. And yet, A-B owners almost always have owned only that brand,and have never tried any other brand of studio flash equipment. Many A-B kit owners can tell you how great their A-B stuff is, but there is seldom any comparison of it with other gear.

 

[fokker]

I'm generally uninformed about strobes and studio lighting, but I am an electrical engineer so thought I would chime in with some info here.

Watt-seconds as we know is a measure of the amount of energy that powers the flash bulb, and is dependant on the power delivered to the bulb (watts) and the length of time the pulse lasts for (seconds). I am unclear as to whether this is used to describe the electrical energy input to the flash bulb, or the light energy output from the bulb, though I suspect it to be the former. Lights in general are horrendously inefficent, and there is also a good deal of difference in the efficiency of different kinds of lighting (compare incandescant light bulbs with LED lights for example on a watts-in for lumens-out basis). My point is, it is possible that if these alienbees have a more efficient type of flashbulb then simply stating the electical energy input will miselad customers into thinking they are less powerful than they actually are in terms of light output.

 

[Montana]

3 other great products from Alienbees that should not be overlooked:

Cybersyncs
CyberCommander
Vagabond II

 

[inTempus]

I won't be getting Alien Bees mainly because of their flash duration, and because I want something with more kick in it. I will be buying some of the supplies though, I already own an umbrella from them and love it. For me there are some better options out there.

I think you need to take a look at their new product line, the Einstein's.

 

[inTempus]

Can't believe I forgot to mention the color shift! As little as it sounds, that gets annoying after a while. We found this out in class with a live demo of Alien Bees lights, bunch of us were playing with them (with the teacher's camera, so same camera) all coming out with slightly differing image color quality.

Again, you need to take a look at their new products.

 

[kkamin]

Many have said that they cannot overpower the sun. Does that mean they have a really slow duration like 1/500th a second or less? Because it seems like a 320 w/s light should be able to over power the sun. Confundito. :shock:

 

[inTempus]

They are affordable, work very well, are reliable and they give you access to great light modifiers without breaking the bank. They also have some very cool tools at prices you can't find elsewhere, take a look at their CyberCommander as an example. An amazingly useful wireless control system for $179.

There are snobs in every field be it cars, computers, photography, etc. If it's not a big brand name, it's garbage. Are Bee's flawless? No. But tests I've seen have shown that the Bee's are about 96% consistent in their power output whereas units costing 4x's or more are 98% consistent. If that 2% is worth $800 or more to you, buy the more expensive units. For pros this might be an issue. For the average photographer, such as myself, it's not an issue at all.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UO5vp4oOnWY[/ame]

I've used 2 B800's and a single B400 for over a year now and have shot plenty of modeling gigs, even for a local clothing line. And guess what? No issues with light consistency or color shift. Check out my port, everything in there was shot using Bee's. If you can find fault with the quality of light in any of my images, please point it out.

Bee's are very popular, I see them everywhere. Some have claimed in the past that Bee's are so poorly made that they couldn't stand up to being rented. I think this proves that notion as being inaccurate. I've dropped by Bee's on concrete while on location and nothing happened. I don't even carry them in protective bags, I just toss them in the back of the Jeep and go. I've used them everywhere from abandon buildings to the beach and they've not failed me once.

I'm on the waiting list for the new Einsteins. These new units promise to be some of the most advanced lights for under $500 a pop on the market with full integration with the CyberCommander system. I look forward to testing them out.

Also, the warranty is top notch. If you're hesitant about buying Bee's know that PCB stands behind his equipment 100% with the best no BS warranty I've ever seen. There's a reason Bee's are so insanely popular, it's because they are a great value and they perform quite well.

It boils down to this:

If you have the money and can afford something like Profoto, get them. I would say most hobbyists don't have that kind of money laying around to invest $8k into lighting equipment when they have a $500 body and perhaps $800 in lenses. If you're interested in jumping into the realm of studio photography, don't feel compelled to buy the most expensive lights there are. Bee's offer hobbyist and yes, professionals (lots of them in use by people earning a living with cameras), quality light for a fraction of the cost. They will work for you, period. You won't get them and think "oh man, these suck!". You'll get them and think "I'm glad I bought these".

Now, if you have the disposable income and or you have the need for the best lighting equipment money can buy, by all means I wouldn't try to dissuade you from buying from one of the top European brands. You certainly aren't going to regret buying their stuff from a quality standpoint. It's VERY nice stuff.

I could buy Profoto if I wanted to. I've chosen to go with Bee's. Initially it was because I wasn't sure how much I would use the studio lights. I stick with Bee's now because they give me everything I want. If they didn't serve me well, I would toss them and go with Profoto in a heartbeat. Right now I'm planning to upgrade my flashes to the new Einsteins. I could easily take that $2k and put it towards a new Profoto setup, but I honestly have no desire to given my experiences with the Bee's. I really like them.

 

[inTempus]

Many have said that they cannot overpower the sun. Does that mean they have a really slow duration like 1/500th a second or less? Because it seems like a 240 w/s light should be able to over power the sun. Confundito. :shock:

I can, and have, over powered the sun with my B800's even while using a beauty dish. You're not going to over power the sun from 20 yards away, but then I personally don't have a need to. But then I've not tried their 11" "long throw" reflector either: http://www.alienbees.com/11ltr.html

 

[NateWagner]

One thing to consider as well about "over-powering the sun" is that it highly depends on the time of day you are shooting. For example, if you want to get one of those shots where the flash is lighting the subject and the background is underexposed to get an incredibly blue shot, it is much easier to do that when shooting in the morning or shortly before sunset. There is less to over power. Theoretically most strobes will over power the sun when used properly and from a short distance at the proper time of day.

Overpowering the sun during midday however typically requires a lot of light, and either hss/fp or stopping down the lens a ton. This is where a less powerful light might not quite be up to snuff. but, again, if you understand lighting and distances etc. then you should be fine (typically even with just the one light)