What good are clinical trials?

[Gavjenks]

But you are putting data on there that is nothing more than a guess.

Wait, do you mean "it's a guess" as in it's an estimate from the data, not a hard absolute number?

In that case, yes, it's an estimate with a degree of unsureness on either side, based on finite data. ...You know, sort of like every other belief or conclusion about the facts of the universe that you or any other human has ever had since the dawn of our species.

That's just how science and knowledge works. If you require 100% accuracy before accepting or acting on things, then you're going to die of thirst in a couple days, because you'll be paralyzed from making any decisions at all about anything.

 

[table1349]

Personally I think that all those that have doubts about the safety of a vaccine or vaccines should definitely not take any vaccine that they are afraid of. Frankly the human gene pool could use a little chlorine in it.

 

[pixmedic]

Personally I think that all those that have doubts about the safety of a vaccine or vaccines should definitely not take any vaccine that they are afraid of. Frankly the human gene pool could use a little chlorine in it.

chlorine nothing....at this point it needs some strychnine
[h=1][/h][h=1][/h]

 

[table1349]

Personally I think that all those that have doubts about the safety of a vaccine or vaccines should definitely not take any vaccine that they are afraid of. Frankly the human gene pool could use a little chlorine in it.

chlorine nothing....at this point it needs some strychnine

Only because we can't get our hands on some Agent Orange.

 

[manicmike]

Personally I think that all those that have doubts about the safety of a vaccine or vaccines should definitely not take any vaccine that they are afraid of. Frankly the human gene pool could use a little chlorine in it.

So you suggest vaccinating against things that typically aren't life threatening like chicken pox?

 

[weepete]

A lot of the time you are comparing apples with oranges though.

I'd suggest a short further learning course like a PHD in Public Health Medicine if you really want to understand the subject better. :hugs:

 

[table1349]

Well only if you consider the following unimportant.

• Secondary bacterial infections
  
• Pneumonia
  
• Encephalitis (inflammation of the brain)
  
• Cerebellar ataxia (defective muscular coordination)
  
• Transverse myelitis (inflammation along the spinal cord)
  
• Reye syndrome. This is a serious condition marked by a group of symptoms that may affect all major systems or organs. Children with varicella should not be given aspirin because it increases the risk of Reye syndrome.
  
• Death
  
  From John Hopkins University.
  
  Sever complications tend to happen in Adults and those with compromised immune systems.
  

 

[manicmike]

For most people, chickenpox is a mild disease.- Mayo Clinic.

I can do this all day long too.

 

[manicmike]

Actually, no I can't. I don't have the energy to argue with people on the internet.

 

[table1349]

Frankly it don't matter to me, chlorine, strychnine, agent orange, it's all good.

 

[skieur]

Apparently we should be doing much more pointed questioning of doctors and their diagnoses as well as the downsides of drugs, procedures and treatments, according to the latest medical studies.

The American Medical Association did a study of 100 men who had high PSA blood tests supposedly indicating prostrate cancer, follow up biopsies which further "confirmed" prostrate cancer and finally operations to take out the prostrate gland which was tested as well for cancer. The result was loss of urinary and bowel control and therefore loss of the quality of life for those that had the operation.

BUT only 25 out of 100 in the final test after the operation truly had cancer and only a smaller number had a form of cancer that would have actually been potentially fatal.

To put it another way and use a different quote: More men die WITH prostrate cancer than die FROM prostrate cancer.

So, I wonder, with an approximately 1 in 12 chance or less of having a deadly form of cancer, how many men would RISK their quality of life?

 

[Gavjenks]

Well only if you consider the following unimportant.

• Secondary bacterial infections
• Pneumonia
• Encephalitis (inflammation of the brain)
• Cerebellar ataxia (defective muscular coordination)
• Transverse myelitis (inflammation along the spinal cord)
• Reye syndrome. This is a serious condition marked by a group of symptoms that may affect all major systems or organs. Children with varicella should not be given aspirin because it increases the risk of Reye syndrome.
• Death
  
  From John Hopkins University.
  
  Sever complications tend to happen in Adults and those with compromised immune systems.

Yes, these things can be caused by chickenpox. All of them could also be caused by the vaccine, too, however. Which is the whole point of this thread, that you don't seem to be commenting on.
Is it rare/unlikely? Sure. So is having any of those things happen from chicken pox itself...
Rare vs. rare, not enough data or studies to know which is rareR = how do you rationally decide? Avoiding encephalitis from chicken pox would be stupid if the thing you use to avoid it turned out in the end to be even more likely to give you encephalitis...

And that's assuming you even have the best numbers in front of you. If you don't, because you don't have time to research them or have the expertise, and nobody is telling you, then it's even more hopeless to rationally decide.




Again, it's like wanting to know whether some slightly weighted dice end up on "5" versus "6" more often, but the dice have only ever been rolled like 4 times in testing, and even those results are hidden from you unless you spend hours researching and have a university database subscription or similar.

 

[pixmedic]

as riveting as this all is, I think there is probably a 95% chance that <5% of the <2% of TPF members that read through this thread will actually give >1% of a crap about all this.

in all seriousness though, I am personally all for adding as much legitimate clinical information to all paperwork associated with drugs of any kind.
the more educated people are about the drugs they are taking, the better chance they have of making the best informed decision for themselves.
that being said...people still have to make the effort to get that info, understand the implications, and they still have to have some monicker of trust in the system that produced that information. (that is where the breakdown might occur)

 

[kathyt]

i know that there are different strains of the flu.
and I know that the flu vaccination is based on whatever the most prevalent strain is that season, which does not preclude you from getting another strain.
and and I know that I got the flu shot from work last year, and a few weeks later came down with the worst case of the flu I have had in years.
and and AND my partner, who did not get the flu shot, managed not to catch the flu at all.

This could entirely be coincidental. I do not know with any degree of certainty that getting the flu shot -vs- not, and the fact that I got the flu and my partner did not, are related in any way shape of form.

im just sayin. next flu season i may rethink getting the flu shot.

The most popular and current form of the influenza vaccine is actually formulated to prevent multiple strands of the Flu. Not just one. From my experience, so many patients state that they got the "Flu" after getting the vaccine, but never actually tested positive for Influenza. They just had flu-like symptoms. Big difference.

 

[pixmedic]

i know that there are different strains of the flu.
and I know that the flu vaccination is based on whatever the most prevalent strain is that season, which does not preclude you from getting another strain.
and and I know that I got the flu shot from work last year, and a few weeks later came down with the worst case of the flu I have had in years.
and and AND my partner, who did not get the flu shot, managed not to catch the flu at all.

This could entirely be coincidental. I do not know with any degree of certainty that getting the flu shot -vs- not, and the fact that I got the flu and my partner did not, are related in any way shape of form.

im just sayin. next flu season i may rethink getting the flu shot.

The most popular and current form of the influenza vaccine is actually formulated to prevent multiple strands of the Flu. Not just one. From my experience, so many patients state that they got the "Flu" after getting the vaccine, but never actually tested positive for Influenza. They just had flu-like symptoms. Big difference.

well, I dont know since i didnt go to the doctor.
all i do know is that it laid me out for a week, and it didnt matter to me whether it was influenza or just symptoms.