What lights for a main and back light?

[Derrel]

Although I think Derrel's description of a "typical 2-car garage" is outrageously funny since there are, just about, as many different types of garages as there are houses, I definitely agree that you should set up your background at the end of the long side.

d.clownwalker,
I wondered about that...hmmm...architecture school...classified ads...years of living in the USA in multiple cities and states...so I typed in "typical 2-car garage" and did a quick Google search. First result seemed to be very "typical":

"What is the typical size of a 2 car garage?
In: Interior Design [Edit categories]

The typical garage, as defined by most cities and counties in the United States, is 20 ft by 20 ft - for a total of 400 sq.ft. The most common garage door is a single 16 ft wide door centered on one side of the garage.
High-end designers generally prefer larger garages and multiple, smaller doors. A common designer 2-car garage size is 26 ft wide by 24 ft deep. Instead of a single large door, such a garage would typically have two 8 ft or 9 ft doors along one of the long elevations. "

Imagine that cloudy...there actually "is" a definition of typical 2-car garage!
Isn't that simply outrageously funny!? lol

 

[Big Mike]

Well there you go...a typical 2 car garage is pretty much square, so 'shooting the length of the garage' would only gain you a couple feet at most. (unless, of course, you open the door, step out and shoot back into the garage).

I still think the option of a 16' wide softbox (door) on the side of the set, is too attractive to pass up.

 

[Derrel]

Well there you go...a typical 2 car garage is pretty much square, so 'shooting the length of the garage' would only gain you a couple feet at most. (unless, of course, you open the door, step out and shoot back into the garage).

I still think the option of a 16' wide softbox (door) on the side of the set, is too attractive to pass up.

Well, actually both myself and c.cloud are suggesting that by shooting the long direction, it is possible for the photographer to position himself either inside the house, or out in the driveway, in order to get farther away from the subject. The main reasons for that would be to use longer focal length lenses, and to allow a bit more space between the subject and the background. I've shot in a number of garage studios as well as studio camera rooms over two decades,and I think the single biggest problems nowadays with the 1.5 and 1.6x cameras is lack of space between the subject and the background; APS-C cameras have deep depth of field at typical garage-studio distances and at small f/stops with shorter lens focal lengths. There's a "look" that APS-C portraiture has most of the time, and that look is of a backdrop, paper or fabric, that is too-much in-focus in relation to the portrait subject, due to the small f/stop, and the short focal lengths so often needed when shooting in a confined space like a 20-foot deep garage. Which is I think why c.cloudwalker was suggesting moving the camera way back, even out into the driveway area.

As far as the big open door as a light source...I'm not interested in having ambient light and working at ambient light exposure values or slow shutter speeds, since daylight and studio flash do not really mix all that well at typical flash f/stops like f/8...the daylight coming in is quite weak at f/8 unless it's summer time.

Another limitation of the garage studio is quite often the height of the ceiling. It can be difficult or impossible to use larger soft boxes in many garage-type situations.

 

[Big Mike]

I agree. I like to shoot portraits with my 70-200mm, and there is almost no way I'd be able to do that while constrained to the inside dimensions of a garage.

But...someone could use a fast prime and shoot at large apertures, which would both help to blur the backdrop and get enough exposure to shoot with natural light. There is still the working space issue, which would limit you to shorter lenses, and the unflattering perspective that comes along with it...but hey, there is always a compromise somewhere.

All I'm saying, is that the option to easily have a 'natural light studio' is very attractive to me. I'd still want the option to shut out the ambient light and light everything with strobes.

 

[aliciaqw]

I agree. I like to shoot portraits with my 70-200mm, and there is almost no way I'd be able to do that while constrained to the inside dimensions of a garage.

But...someone could use a fast prime and shoot at large apertures, which would both help to blur the backdrop and get enough exposure to shoot with natural light. There is still the working space issue, which would limit you to shorter lenses, and the unflattering perspective that comes along with it...but hey, there is always a compromise somewhere.

All I'm saying, is that the option to easily have a 'natural light studio' is very attractive to me. I'd still want the option to shut out the ambient light and light everything with strobes.

I use my 50mm 1.4 for most of my shooting. I think that will be fine in the garage. And the ceiling is pretty high so that will help.

 

[aliciaqw]

I'm assuming I could just experiment with how I want to arrange them as far as using one for key light and the other for either fill or backlight, right?

Yes, absolutely.

Also, I read somewhere that you're better off not using a backlight on small children. How do you guys feel about that?

I wouldn't say 'better off'...but I think the issue is that small children don't sit still...and they may not be in the right position for the backlight to be effective. But there is no reason not to try it if you think it will look good.

Umbrellas or softboxes? Does it really matter if people are my subjects? I've read that umbrellas are bad if you're photographing shiny objects like bottles and glass

As mentioned, umbrellas tend to spread the light all over, which isn't a big deal if you are shooting on a light background, but if you are trying to shoot on a darker background, especially in a small space, then the light may bounce all around and put too much on your backdrop. A softbox keeps the light to just one direction, which helps you to better control the light...however, they are a lot more expensive than umbrellas and most of them are a lot harder to set up and take down than an umbrella.
They both do the same basic job though, which is to soften the light.

If I bought one of those starter kits, what else do I need to get it functional?

The first thing is that you need a way to trigger the lights. Most strobes will come with a cord...but your camera may or may not have a sync port to plug the cord into. If your camera doesn't have the PC flash sync port, then you will need a hotshoe adapter, something like THIS. However, many of us have found that it's easier to work with a wireless trigger system. There are several options, ranging from $40 to several hundred. Check out THIS one.

It won't be cheap, but a really good tool to help you out with your studio lighting, will be a flash meter. I recommend THIS one or THIS one. These will allow you to precisely measure your lighting, which then allows you to set up lighting ratios (main/fill/back) and find the proper exposure settings for the camera.

Thanks for the links! I was looking up the wireless triggers and flash meters yesterday. I'm slowly but surely starting to figure things out in my head, which is nice for a change I'm going to buy lights next week and a trigger system, then start accumulating everything else piece by piece from there. DH seems excited to get involved, too

 

[Big Mike]

Something else to consider...

The previously mentioned Alienbee company has a great wireless trigger system call Cyber Sync. They are a fair bit more expensive than the cheap Cactus ones I linked to...but they are still cheaper than the industry standard Pocket Wizards. Also, if you decide to go with AB lights, you can get a wireless system that will allow you to control the power of the lights remotely as well as fire them. That's probably an indulgence for a beginner's home studio, but something to consider none the less.

I have some Cactus triggers (an older version). They did work, but not well enough, so I upgraded to the Cyber Syncs, which have been flawless.

 

[aliciaqw]

Something else to consider...

The previously mentioned Alienbee company has a great wireless trigger system call Cyber Sync. They are a fair bit more expensive than the cheap Cactus ones I linked to...but they are still cheaper than the industry standard Pocket Wizards. Also, if you decide to go with AB lights, you can get a wireless system that will allow you to control the power of the lights remotely as well as fire them. That's probably an indulgence for a beginner's home studio, but something to consider none the less.

I have some Cactus triggers (an older version). They did work, but not well enough, so I upgraded to the Cyber Syncs, which have been flawless.

I'm leaning toward the Alien Bees since I won't feel the need to upgrade in a few months when I plan on being a dramitcally improved photographer (haha, rriiiiight). Plus, how can I say no to a MARTIAN PINK light?? Ummm, hello?! DH said it fits me perfectly. I might end up with two of those to start off. I'll definitely check out those Cyber Syncs. I don't feel bad about going slightly over budget since DH has spent thousands and thousands on his hobbies (golf, motocross, fishing, and booze).

So the Cyber Syncs also allow you to control the power of the lights remotely, or is that another system on the AB site?

 

[LBPhotog]

I'm leaning toward the Alien Bees since I won't feel the need to upgrade in a few months when I plan on being a dramitcally improved photographer (haha, rriiiiight) ...

I really, really love my AB 800s ....

As for upgrading, even if you want to in a few months look into AB's "upgrade program" they allow you to "trade up" your old AB equipment ...

 

[Don Kondra]

FYI - the Cyber Commander will allow for remote adjustment of the power of the lights AND functions as a light meter...

Cheers, Don

 

[Big Mike]

So the Cyber Syncs also allow you to control the power of the lights remotely, or is that another system on the AB site?

Cyber Sync is actually a line of wireless trigger products. To get remote control of your lights, you would need the Cyber Commander and the + receivers for each light. AlienBees: Illuminating the Galaxy with Professional Photographic Lighting Equipment

I only have a simple transmitter and one receiver. For just triggering the lights, you only need one receiver as the lights have a built in optical trigger so that when one fires, they all do. I don't have remote control of my lights, so I just walk up to them and adjust the power. It's only inconvenient when I have a light mounted up high, on a boom stand for example.

 

[aliciaqw]

FYI - the Cyber Commander will allow for remote adjustment of the power of the lights AND functions as a light meter...

Cheers, Don

Good to know- thanks!!

So the Cyber Syncs also allow you to control the power of the lights remotely, or is that another system on the AB site?

Cyber Sync is actually a line of wireless trigger products. To get remote control of your lights, you would need the Cyber Commander and the + receivers for each light. AlienBees: Illuminating the Galaxy with Professional Photographic Lighting Equipment

I only have a simple transmitter and one receiver. For just triggering the lights, you only need one receiver as the lights have a built in optical trigger so that when one fires, they all do. I don't have remote control of my lights, so I just walk up to them and adjust the power. It's only inconvenient when I have a light mounted up high, on a boom stand for example.

Noooow I get it Thank you again for all your help! I'm excited to get movin' with this! Maybe next month I can wrangle a 5DMII for my birthday. Haha! I think I can justify it once this is all set and there is some improvement in the lighting and overall finished product.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

Although I think Derrel's description of a "typical 2-car garage" is outrageously funny since there are, just about, as many different types of garages as there are houses, I definitely agree that you should set up your background at the end of the long side.

d.clownwalker,
I wondered about that...hmmm...architecture school...classified ads...years of living in the USA in multiple cities and states...so I typed in "typical 2-car garage" and did a quick Google search. First result seemed to be very "typical":

"What is the typical size of a 2 car garage?
In: Interior Design [Edit categories]

The typical garage, as defined by most cities and counties in the United States, is 20 ft by 20 ft - for a total of 400 sq.ft. The most common garage door is a single 16 ft wide door centered on one side of the garage.
High-end designers generally prefer larger garages and multiple, smaller doors. A common designer 2-car garage size is 26 ft wide by 24 ft deep. Instead of a single large door, such a garage would typically have two 8 ft or 9 ft doors along one of the long elevations. "

Imagine that cloudy...there actually "is" a definition of typical 2-car garage!
Isn't that simply outrageously funny!? lol

Interesting and, yes, funny. I must specialize in atypical ones. My last one was a 1 1/2 car garage if you put the cars in end to end. I'd say it was about 10 by 20 ft and it could have been turned into a fairly nice home studio with 11 ft ceilings.

The one before that was 25 x 35 ft with the door on the 35 side. Lol.


But this made me think of other things. aliciaqw since you are looking for a new house why don't you look for one with a nice garage that could be used as a studio. Sometimes, like my last one, they have higher ceilings than the house itself and that can be very nice for light placement.

Also, the idea of possibly using the door as a light source is not a bad one but you could use a garage both this way and the way I described by making yourself (or having your hubby make you) a background stand on wheels... This way you can move it to where you want it.

As I have said a few times, in photography, one needs to be creative with gear and situations as much as with the images.

 

[Big Mike]

Or better yet, a garage with a loft.

One of my sisters lived in a place that had a perfect garage for this. It was more like a barn, than a regular garage. It was 50 or 60 feet long, with three car doors on the long side....but it also had a loft that ran the entire length of the building. It would have been an outstanding studio space.

If I was seriously considering a full out home studio, I'd probably look for a property that just had the space to build something....rather than trying to cram a studio into a small garage or worse, a small room in the house.

I work for a company that makes THESE style buildings. I could make a nice studio in something like that.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

If I was seriously considering a full out home studio, I'd probably look for a property that just had the space to build something....rather than trying to cram a studio into a small garage or worse, a small room in the house.

If you have the room on your property, that is definitely the best way to go. You can build the perfect studio more easily that you can turn an existing space into one. And there are cheap and fairly easy ways to build.

The studio I am building right now is neither. But that is just because of me. I have a beautiful farmhouse and I don't want to "destroy" the property with an ugly modern building for my studio...