What May End Film Photography Is Manufacturing of Film

markjwyatt

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I posted some of this on another forum, and will try and make it more concise here.

Manufacturing film requires substantial capital investment and commitment. Though it may be possible to scale down using simpler processes, this will end up making film very expensive. Today film (and print paper, etc.) is produced on huge coating lines (illustrated is a typical coating line, likely NOT for film).

Lackieren-Trockenkaschieren_38030_JF.jpg


The heart of the system is called slide curtain coating. The layers of emulsion need to be coated onto the cellulose base in a manufacturing operation. Kodak, Fuji, Polaroid, and others were experts in operating this type of equipment.

The layers are fed into the rear in pipes then distribute across the web width internally (not sure what widths the photo manufacturers used, maybe 1 m to 2 m), then they came out the exit slots where they stacked without mixing, then slid down the slide, and fell as a curtain to the cellulose or other substrate below, which was moving (not sure what speed, maybe 500-1000 meters/minute). I suppose some operations could coat and dry a single layer at a time, but my understanding is the more advanced companies coated all layers at once. Slide dies can build up many layers. Note curtain coating does not work at low speeds.

I am very familiar with the die coating process (mainly slot and curtain dies), but not in the photographic industry.



Fuji patent: Patent US6607786 - Method of curtain coating

US06607786-20030819-D00000.png


Here is an article that shows some images of a Kodak photographic paper coating line in London (Harrow). They do not show any details of the coating operation, which is the heart of the line. Generally, coating companies keep that type of information fairly proprietary.

Kodak Factory, Harrow, London


Here is the same for an Ilford line ( looks like ~1 m line). Again, they do not show the actual coating operation.

The tech of photo paper: how it's made | TechRadar
 
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As long as I'm alive and film is available (which it will be) it's all good.
 
And, digital gear costs nothing to produce. It just appears out of thin air and floats down from the sky, softly landing on dealers' shelves.
 
And, digital gear costs nothing to produce. It just appears out of thin air and floats down from the sky, softly landing on dealers' shelves.

Digital equipment is in the money right now- film is not. The point is not that something has to be manufactured, rather it is that the market has to support the manufacturing. Digital equipment is part of the current tech ecosystem (chips, sensors, batteries, etc.), and thus is supported readily. Manufacturing silver halide emulsion coatings is very specialized.

I suspect as long as there is an interest in film, someone will figure out a way to keep manufacturing it. On the other hand choices become (and already are) limited, and costs may increase substantially over time.

With the current [apparent] uptick in interest in film, there may be some good opportunities to start new film lines or take over existing ones to feed this.
 
So what are you trying to say? Film is dying and all the plants should just be shut down? Or film is alive a kicking and ripe for new players?
 
So what are you trying to say? Film is dying and all the plants should just be shut down? Or film is alive a kicking and ripe for new players?

Neither.

If film dies out, it will likely be due to lack of demand, and thus making it economically impractical to maintain high volume production. On the other hand, I did mention that there appears to be an uptick in interest for using film.

My post is mainly informative, and not intended to be a projection. I personally hope film continues far into the future.
 
The point is not that something has to be manufactured, rather it is that the market has to support the manufacturing.

That's startling news. Be sure to post it on other forums.
 
So what are you trying to say? Film is dying and all the plants should just be shut down? Or film is alive a kicking and ripe for new players?

Neither.

If film dies out, it will likely be due to lack of demand, and thus making it economically impractical to maintain high volume production. .............

Oh, you mean like 8-track audio tapes and floppy disks?
 
The point is not that something has to be manufactured, rather it is that the market has to support the manufacturing.

That's startling news. Be sure to post it on other forums.

Aren't you the snarky one, :icon_cool:? I would have thought that a sub-forum discussing film photography at a time of declining film availability would support some discussion of manufacturing film!
 
So what are you trying to say? Film is dying and all the plants should just be shut down? Or film is alive a kicking and ripe for new players?

Neither.

If film dies out, it will likely be due to lack of demand, and thus making it economically impractical to maintain high volume production. .............

Oh, you mean like 8-track audio tapes and floppy disks?

Bingo.

On the other hand, I doubt you will find to many audio forums with active sub-forums on 8-track tapes (though I am sure you will find some), nor computer forums lamenting the loss of floppy disks!
 
Like anything in business, supply and demand. So it seems like what may end film photography is demand.
 
... and on that demand note, it seems like the demand for film is back up again...

This Is Why Film Photography Is Making a Comeback

"“We’re seeing film growth of 5% year-on-year globally,” says Giles Branthwaite, the sales and marketing director at Harman. “Our professional film sales have been increasing over the last two or three years,” confirms Dennis Olbrich, president of Kodak Alaris’ imaging, paper, photo chemicals and film division."
 
Like anything in business, supply and demand. So it seems like what may end film photography is demand.

Also technology replacement. I suspect one of the things that keeps film alive is the abundance of amazing equipment at bargain prices. Many of the better lenses are getting repurposed for digital (in manual focus mode).

8-track got replaced by cassette, but few lost music. Floppies were replaced by 3 1/2"", then thumb drives, but few lost all their data. The transition from film is a little less gentle, like the end of horse carriages almost; at least from the perspective of film manufacturers.

One thing that could set film back further is if someone can start producing reasonably priced digital conversions for some of the more attractive cameras.
 
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I would have thought that a sub-forum discussing film photography at a time of declining film availability would support some discussion of manufacturing film!

But what's to discuss? If demand for film starts to decline past a certain point, the makers will close their shops. Happens every day in a free economy. There's nothing new or earth-shattering about this.
 

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