What May End Film Photography Is Manufacturing of Film

[cgw]

... and on that demand note, it seems like the demand for film is back up again...

This Is Why Film Photography Is Making a Comeback

"“We’re seeing film growth of 5% year-on-year globally,” says Giles Branthwaite, the sales and marketing director at Harman. “Our professional film sales have been increasing over the last two or three years,” confirms Dennis Olbrich, president of Kodak Alaris’ imaging, paper, photo chemicals and film division."

That article...I get kicked and punched regularly for arguing that the "Comeback" is largely misleading and too often used to support pure magical thinking. Why? "Five" percent of what? Sales? Production? Can't tell? What's the baseline above which the 5% rose--i.e., how was the increase calculated? Don't say. We're supposedly at 2% of the nearly 1 billion rolls cranked out over the late 90s-early 2000s. Anyone go over the falls with those almost 20 years of subsequent collapse? I did. Probably the most telling index of the damage was the widespread closing of labs over the same years. Funny how they're not reviving if demand is recovering so briskly. We're in a residual market now, long-tail stuff, where small demand amounts to enough to support a few players whose production and services are right-sized. Happy as hell I can still get a great variety of film materials and top-shelf pro lab service here in downtown Toronto. Problem is, they're no longer on offer nearby in the 'burbs. Ilford will ride it out to the end. Kodak? Still wondering if the VCs will axe still film. Fuji doesn't need film to be profitable.

 

[limr]

Le sigh.

I know this thread was started with the good intention of someone trying to be helpful and informative. Having said that, I can no longer help myself...

 

[john.margetts]

The Italian Ferrania project is using a coating machine intended to produce test quantities of new film formulations rather than an old fashioned industrial run . This means that they cannot produce film in the quantities that Fuji and Kodak do but it also means that they can produce small runs economically.

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[markjwyatt]

...But what's to discuss? ...

There is something to discuss if you prefer to shoot film. Of course, one question is 'what can you do about it'. Last I checked this is considered a discussion forum (more specifically a photography [discussion] forum).

The Italian Ferrania project is using a coating machine intended to produce test quantities of new film formulations rather than an old fashioned . This means that they cannot produce film in the quantities that Fuji and Kodak do but it also means that they can produce small runs economically.

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This may be a model of the future- boutique film production. Maybe not even on a regular basis. I can see photoblogs announcing Such-and-such film producers just produced 100,000 rolls of their blankety-blank super color 100 120 film. $30/ roll.

 

[markjwyatt]

The Italian Ferrania project is using a coating machine intended to produce test quantities of new film formulations rather than an old fashioned industrial run . This means that they cannot produce film in the quantities that Fuji and Kodak do but it also means that they can produce small runs economically.

Sent from my 8070 using Tapatalk

Here is a film showing what you are talking about. Very interesting.

 

[Vtec44]

... and on that demand note, it seems like the demand for film is back up again...

This Is Why Film Photography Is Making a Comeback

"“We’re seeing film growth of 5% year-on-year globally,” says Giles Branthwaite, the sales and marketing director at Harman. “Our professional film sales have been increasing over the last two or three years,” confirms Dennis Olbrich, president of Kodak Alaris’ imaging, paper, photo chemicals and film division."

That article...I get kicked and punched regularly for arguing that the "Comeback" is largely misleading and too often used to support pure magical thinking. Why? "Five" percent of what? Sales? Production? Can't tell? What's the baseline above which the 5% rose--i.e., how was the increase calculated? Don't say. We're supposedly at 2% of the nearly 1 billion rolls cranked out over the late 90s-early 2000s. Anyone go over the falls with those almost 20 years of subsequent collapse? I did. Probably the most telling index of the damage was the widespread closing of labs over the same years. Funny how they're not reviving if demand is recovering so briskly. We're in a residual market now, long-tail stuff, where small demand amounts to enough to support a few players whose production and services are right-sized. Happy as hell I can still get a great variety of film materials and top-shelf pro lab service here in downtown Toronto. Problem is, they're no longer on offer nearby in the 'burbs. Ilford will ride it out to the end. Kodak? Still wondering if the VCs will axe still film. Fuji doesn't need film to be profitable.

Maybe 5% from the previous year. The article was published in Jan 2017, so 19m rolls of market demand annually at that time, so assuming it's growing 5% annually again from that. It will never be back to its old film glory day but it won't just disappear completely either for now. It's like radio vs TV when TV first came out.

BTW, take a deep breath!

 

[markjwyatt]

From this document on the Ferrania LRF (Little Boy): https://www.filmferrania.it/s/The_LRF.pdf

"We call the old Ferrania coater, “Big Boy,” and he sits in a building the size of an American football field. When Big Boy is powered up, hundreds of feet of film are wasted while getting up to operating speed. He produces a roll of film 1.38 meters wide, of which only the center 1.3 meters are actually used. This means that while Big Boy was making film, for over 50 years, he was also wasting thousands upon thousands of exposures.

Big Boy was built to run 24/7 with minimal stoppage. Of course, running Big Boy all the time also wasted a lot of electricity. So much so that Ferrania had their own power plant. Making film is also one of the most complex chemical processes ever invented - with a hundred or more different chemicals combining into 20 or so individually applied layers to produce an emulsion that is less than the width of a human hair. Consistently. For miles and miles and miles of seamless production. For Ferrania to produce this miracle substance at a reasonable price with Big Boy, they literally had to make hundreds of kilometers of film before they could switch to another film type..."

"...In order to produce new products and reduce waste, Ferrania’s chefs needed a new kitchen. In 1966, the 3M Corporation gave them one - The L.R.F.

L.R.F is an acronym for Laboratorio Ricerche Fotografiche. In English, it’s simply “Photo Research Laboratory” - but we think you’ll agree that the Italian has a bit more flair. This building contains an exact copy, in miniature, of the primary industrial coating facility in the adjacent building."

 

[480sparky]

So.............. us film aficionados are all now supposed to go out and............ do what? Learn how film is manufactured?

While it may be a fascinating subject to a few, it's mostly irrelevant for the vast majority of us analog fans.

 

[markjwyatt]

So.............. us film aficionados are all now supposed to go out and............ do what? Learn how film is manufactured?...

Nope. Furthering your education is completely optional.

 

[compur]

Aren't you the snarky one, ? I would have thought that a sub-forum discussing film photography at a time of declining film availability would support some discussion of manufacturing film!

It's an old over-discussed topic around here and at least some of us have grown tired of it.

We know that film sales aren't what they used to be.
We know that future film manufacturing depends on user interest.
We know that film sales have resurged somewhat (or not, depending on who you believe).
We know that many films have been discontinued due to insufficient sales.
And, we know that manufacturing film isn't cheap or easy.

The above points have been raised and re-raised previously on this forum and discusses ad-nauseum. Hence the grouchy reception for your revelations.

 

[cgw]

Le sigh.

I know this thread was started with the good intention of someone trying to be helpful and informative. Having said that, I can no longer help myself...

View attachment 156869

Everyone has the right to be tiresome occasionally, right?

 

[cgw]

So.............. us film aficionados are all now supposed to go out and............ do what? Learn how film is manufactured?...

Nope. Furthering your education is completely optional.

The Ferrania info is all old news, sorry. You shoud research how long they strung people along before actually making something.

 

[markjwyatt]

...We know that film sales aren't what they used to be.
We know that future film manufacturing depends on user interest.
We know that film sales have resurged somewhat (or not, depending on who you believe).
We know that many films have been discontinued due to insufficient sales.
And, we know that manufacturing film isn't cheap or easy...

If you read the OP, it is more about the actual manufacturing process than any of those things. But, in any case, point taken.

 

[Derrel]

I sense a huge amount of butt-hurt in this thread...

 

[Dave Colangelo]

Im sure they will stop making film one day....

and approximately 1 month later I will start making it in my garage...