What the h*ll?

elsaspet · Dec 16, 2006

Agree with Marc totally. It's not about being a good or bad photog, it has to do with the intention of the photo.

BoblyBill · Dec 16, 2006

I have just gotten into photography and all I have is a film camera... I wanted to get into the digital for the sole reason that film is costing me a bundle (over $700 since August). I just a got a Canon d30 3.1MP, which to most of people on here is small potatos. But I don't make a living at photography so I don't to make prints bigger than 8x10 (at least for now). Most of my photography is put on a hosting sight were the biggest sized picture is 1024x720 that I have found. I don't and haven't cropped any of my pictures, and didn't know that people did that all the time... I think that smaller the MP the more the photographer is forced to compose correctly because they can't really crop it. I think that this camera will really help me because I can't alway remember the settings that I have used on the film... but I can get a preview of what I took recompose and take another picture.

Edited:

I don't and haven't cropped any of my pictures, and didn't know that people did that all the time... I think that smaller the MP the more the photographer is forced to compose correctly because they can't really crop it.

In which I haven't mastered... and I probably should crop...

Alex_B · Dec 16, 2006

whoha we finally got some broader discussion going on ...

mysteryscribe · Dec 16, 2006

I think most of us have said the same thing with different words. A new photographer, pro or amatuer, shouldn't feel the need to buy a bigger and better camera just because there is one out there.

Im going to go back to film for a minute because it is what I know best. When I first started everyone shot weddings with 6x6 minimum 3x4 or 4x5 were the gods. Toward the end of my career I went to 35mm because the business had changed. I saw it and a lot of the old timers didn't. It was no longer a matter of walk up to the happy couple and have them hold very very still. It was a matter of adapting to what was going on around the ceremony. It had gone from 36 shots and pick 12, to 200 shots and pick fifty. Some 35mm casual and some 6x6 formals. A lot like it is now.

35mm and zoom lenses just made sense. Plus you could buy some damn good glass for two hundred bucks in 35mm. So that is were I began thinking about situational equipment.

As I am fond of saying one size does not fit all. I didn't think there was any doubt that digital was the way to go for wedding candids five years ago. I had my doubts about portraits then, and I still do to some extent. I don't doubt that digital processing with a giant computer is where it's at but I do wonder if a drum scan of a 6x7 negative isnt still the way to go for the big portrait or the billboard.

needless to say I don't really try to talk people into or out of buying equipment but I do think there is a lot pf pressure subtle of course but still presure to buy the best regardless of what you need.

BoblyBill · Dec 16, 2006

mysteryscribe said:
needless to say I don't really try to talk people into or out of buying equipment but I do think there is a lot pf pressure subtle of course but still presure to buy the best regardless of what you need

I agree... I have been raised on getting just what you need... I don't have the money to buy the Canon 1Ds Mark II... That many pixals would be to much for me anyways... I wouldn't know what to do with them... I'm used to getting my film put on CD from walmart (which isn't the best way to go by the way) and they are 1818x1228. Having the extra 2160x1440 on the Canon d30 3.1MP will be plenty for me to play with at least for a couple of years. I figure that if I need to do a wedding or something like that (which I'm not in the least talented to qualify for such a venture) I would probably go get some nice slide film for my 35mm and shoot away that is if they want something like a good 16x20... The thing that I have experienced too is that... if you are trying to sell your pictures the average consumer could not the difference between say a 14.9MP (which is what I had scanned with a nice slide) and probably 6MP at 8x10. This guy that was selling his 8x10 right next to me was selling his for a $1 (and actually selling them) were as mine was higher res but nobody there could tell the difference and nobody was willing to pay the $10 that I was wanting from mine (in which I was making MAYBE a measly $2.50 profit off mine.)

mysteryscribe · Dec 16, 2006

which brings up another good point. You go out and buy all this high dollar stuff and does the customer really have a clue. I doubt it. To be honest. I honestly heard, maybe once a year, anyone even ask what kind of cameras I used.

I usually said well that up to you. I can shoot this 35mm set that all this samples were shot with for x, or break out my big cameras from that box over there and charge you double. If the samples aren't good enough, I have the larger ones to show you, but they do cost a lot more. Something like that always discouraged my customers from the bigger cameras. Money talks, is not just a saying it is a fact.

Want me to come before the wedding to shoot the families? Why sure $75 an hour and I'll sit there while your maid of honor sends her husband home to get more panty hose. Or while they try to find your dad. But I won't do it for free. But I digress, a problem for us old guys.

You have to shoot and sell you own job not the guy next doors. You won't be able to necessarily get more money for a having fancier equipment. Please note the word necessarily in that.

ladyphotog · Dec 16, 2006

Alex_B said:
Hmmm, I just read some old saying:

Beginners worry about equipment.

Professionals worry about money.

Masters worry about the light.

Some truth in it

There is not some truth to it, it is completely the truth. Masters don't worry about equipment because they can capture the image with anything that is reasonable (ie. not a pinhole). It is ALL about the light.

Alex_B · Dec 16, 2006

ladyphotog said:
There is not some truth to it, it is completely the truth. Masters don't worry about equipment because they can capture the image with anything that is reasonable (ie. not a pinhole). It is ALL about the light.

Well,

but

Beginners like myself often also worry about the money .. or the light!

and a master often cannot do what he wants with a mobilePhoneCamera, so he has to think about equipment too (and money if he does not want to starve).

well, then you say "anything reasonable" .. but that is what we are talking about all the time... what is reasonable for us ...

And, don't discredit the pinhole!

Torus34 · Dec 16, 2006

Oh, my! Now you've gone and done it big time, Ladyphotog! You've suggested that pinhole rigs are not reasonable. You might just have gotten away with it, too, if mysteryscribe wasn't following this thread. [I wouldn't have snitched, either. Honest!] ;-))

elsaspet · Dec 16, 2006

Ah, but the masters CAN take sweet photos with a cell phone.
(I can't find the link, but one of the dudes over at Magnum did a whole series of them. They were mindblowing!)

I agree all the way that light is KEY. Now I just gotta figure out how to see it.

markc · Dec 16, 2006

In my mind, photography is about choices. Style is made up of the choices we consistently make. The choices we have available are determined by the equipment we use. I can take a good shot with a disposable camera, but I can't do the b&w, shallow DOF, med telephoto portraits that I consider my style and would prefer to make. It depends on which way you want to approach things. I prefer to think about the type of image I want to make and pick the equipment that best supports the choices that will get me there. A good photographer can work in the other direction if need be, though, whatever the equipment is.

Torus34 · Dec 16, 2006

Keying [good choice of word?] in on Alex B's comment, there's a little bit of comment that traces back to the days of b&w [before your time, Ladyphotog & Elsaspet.]

A photographer goes through three stages of development.

In the first, he/she has to have the latest gear. Continually updates. Rarely takes a picture except to check out a new lens or a different brand of film. Soots mainly test patterns.

In the second, he/she discovers the darkroom. Takes a few pictures and disappears into the dark for a year or so. Suntan fades away. Keeps printing the same few negatives over and over, tweaking this and adjusting that.

In the final stage, the photog can be found wandering around with a much-loved, well-worn old camera. When asked about gear or darkroom technique, the photog mumbles something about catching the light and walks away.

The photog's prints? You'll find them in the Museum of Modern Art.

mysteryscribe · Dec 16, 2006

I cant believe I have all my favorite photographers on the same thread. And they are all trying to sound humble. The truth is guys the people who are commenting here (except for me) are the least likely to need any of this discussion. The people who do need it are staying as far away as possible for it.

I find myself looking more and more to the why of what I did and do, than the how of it. I expect all the people who have written on this thread no matter what thier age are doing the same.

And I don't think your choices are limited by your equipment. If you can't make the portrait you made yesterday, that might be a good thing. You might take a look at the subject in a different light since you can't see it in yesterday's light.

By the way that short depth of field portrait is really popular at the moment, My son in law is saying he wants Nikon to make a special lens to do whatever the heck you have to have your lens do to create the short depth of field portrait. See how foolish I am, I always thought you just used a very large aperture and focused it really well. Just goes to show my age I guess.

I personally think the subject of a portrait shouldn't be bent to any style but the portrait should suit the subject. But my son in law is all hot to force his style on the portrait. I think that is just inexperience. But then I could be wrong it won't be the first time.

BoblyBill · Dec 16, 2006

mysteryscribe said:
I cant believe I have all my favorite photographers on the same thread. And they are all trying to sound humble. The truth is guys the people who are commenting here (except for me) are the least likely to need any of this discussion. The people who do need it are staying as far away as possible for it.

Surely you didn't see me in here... but I thank you for the compliment...