What's going on?

[kundalini]

....So as you can see women have have become much more sexy over the past half a century....

They may show more skin nowadays, but that does not translate to being 'more sexy'.

Jane Mansfield, Sophia Loren, Rachel Welch, Dorothy Lamour, Marilyn Monroe..... the list goes on.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

....So as you can see women have have become much more sexy over the past half a century....

They may show more skin nowadays, but that does not translate to being 'more sexy'.

Jane Mansfield, Sophia Loren, Rachel Welch, Dorothy Lamour, Marilyn Monroe..... the list goes on.

:thumbup: Exactly my point.

 

[Overread17 5]

Considering the typical "articles" and "reports" that I keep seeing on msn (that annoying window that opens every time I open msn messenger...) I tend to regard msn rather like the Daily Mail newspaper (in the UK). Fine for a laugh but very bad for your health to actually take any of it seriously

 

[KmH]

There were other magazine covers in 1961 that were edited to make the cover model "perfect". SI didn't have a swimsuit issue in 1961.

So IMO, your 2 image comparison is neither valid nor on point.

I believe the perpetrators of the phenomena are the parents and the schools, not the media.

The subjects of the study grew up during a time when children were routinely lied to about the quality of their performance, in the name of supporting their self-esteem. They learned they would get praise, even if they did poor work.

Unfortunately, upon reaching young adulthood these kids get hit with the reality that that stroking wasn't real and won't continue unless their performance actually warrants it.

 

[Formatted]

You're holding the knife. I'm not saying a word. I've only got a vaccuum.

I've got a Turtle!

Your argument is invalid.

 

[Patm1313]

I'm still blaming a good chunk of the issue on Photoshop. I love Photoshop, but the crazy manipulation some can do with a human form (which was not possible even 30 years ago) gives our children the false mindset that this manipulated and impossible-to-achieve figure is what is normal. However, poor self image is not the real problem here. What is the problem is that recent generations are learning that they are not what they should be; that they are flawed and imperfect. There's certainly more going on that is contributing to this wave of poor self-esteem, but in my oppinion, the insecurity resulting from media-fueled poor body image is a massive part of it.

The subjects of the study grew up during a time when children were routinely lied to about the quality of their performance, in the name of supporting their self-esteem. They learned they would get praise, even if they did poor work.

As for this, I'm only with you halfway. I don't necessarily think that elementary school age children should be chided on poor performance, as a strong self esteem need to develop during this part of their lives. A good self-esteem sets the stage for sucessful secondary education, and frankly, for the rest of their lives. However, I do agree with you in the sense that we're going a bit to easy on kids. Middle school (or junior high, for some of you) is the perfect example of this. Teachers may still be in the "raise their self-esteem" mode when really they should be in the "get your sh*t together" mode. Even in highschool teachers maybe are to concerned with nursing each kid instead of preparing them for college. And I agree that as soon as these kids reach college, and are no longer coddled, they are without the praise that they have come to rely on, and strive for it.

 

[Derrel]

MEDIA EXPOSURE is one of the single most-critical shapers of attitudes and behaviors among primary and secondary school aged people, according to one long-term Harvard study I read a few years ago. The television shows, movies, music, reading materials (both print and web-based) are the factors that contribute the most in shaping attitudes,morals, and behaviors of kids.

Kids who listen to hip-hop and rap music are more likely to have sex as early as three years earlier than kids who do not listen to rap and or hip-hop music. Kids who are exposed to lots of sex and violence on TV come to accept sex and violence as fairly normal things.

Ignorance of the role of media on today's youth and their development is an issue that many older people typify; I hate to blame KmH specifically, for trying to downplay the role of the media, and for trying to blame parents, but seriously--"the media" today is much, much more pervasive and invasive and targeted than it was when KmH was a boy. People who grew up with AM radio, 4 TV channels, and TV that was on from 6:00 am until 1:00 AM, when the TV stations shut down, seem to underestimate just how much more "media" is available in today's world. Kids are being targeted by slick advertising campaigns, aimed at children as young as four years old, and the campaigns extend from TV, to city buses, to the grocery store shelves, to videos, to McDonalds, and to Toys R Us...kids today have vast corporations DIRECTLY attempting to influence them, across multiple types of media outlets, all day long.

If one wishes to boost his or her self-esteem, there's a classic sociological study that tells us what to do: STOP WATCHING TELEVISION FOR 90 DAYS. Problem is, the majority of today's population is absolutely hooked on modern media consumption, where the teeth are whiter, the tummies tighter, the boobs larger and more fake, and the sex appeal is cranked up to 10 all the time. In a world where the celebrity men and women are ridiculously beautiful or handsome, "real people" are encouraged to feel inadequate, and to buy products and services to bring themselves upward, to what is acceptable/desirable/portrayed as normative.

As Patm1313 wrote above me, "What is the problem is that recent generations are learning that they are not what they should be; that they are flawed and imperfect. There's certainly more going on that is contributing to this wave of poor self-esteem, but in my oppinion, the insecurity resulting from media-fueled poor body image is a massive part of it."----I agree with that sentiment 100 percent!!!

 

[GeorgieGirl]

As Patm1313 wrote above me, "What is the problem is that recent generations are learning that they are not what they should be; that they are flawed and imperfect.

Wait a second! People are flawed and imperfect, and that is THE reality. There is no one person who is perfect and no one thing that is either.

 

[Patm1313]

Wait a second! People are flawed and imperfect, and that is THE reality. There is no one person who is perfect and no one thing that is either.

I get what you are saying, but I don't mean flawed and imperfect in terms of uniqueness. I mean "flawed and imperfect" in the "I don't look like those girls on the magazines so I must not be good enough, or there must be something wrong with me" sense.

 

[GeorgieGirl]

Wait a second! People are flawed and imperfect, and that is THE reality. There is no one person who is perfect and no one thing that is either.

I get what you are saying, but I don't mean flawed and imperfect in terms of uniqueness. I mean "flawed and imperfect" in the "I don't look like those girls on the magazines so I must not be good enough, or there must be something wrong with me" sense.

Gotcha.

Most people are not 'good enough' to get on a cover. The internalization of that to mean they are not good enough to participate in the unvierse is another story and one that is at cross purposes with reality. Who is to blame for that?

 

[usayit]

IMO,

The American Dream or the concept of it widely accepted by past generations was sliced , diced, and the pieces sold off to the highest bidder. Each generation are reacting differently.

The already retired .... eh.. oh well..
The older generations are fighting over what's left
The middle aged are lying to themselves living on the borrowed
The young adults are sayin WTF happened?

The college/emerging adults are desperately seeking something to pursue.... reacting as discussed here.

You only have to examine other countries that have been and continue to be depressed of opportunity for much longer.....


It's human nature to strive for "what could be achieved"... it drives people. Take that away and people tend to fill the gaps with the superficial and the short term with a good dose from media input

 

[Overread17 5]

I suspect another component to throw into the mix is the fact that populations in developed countries are still rising (slower than in lesser developed nations and also with increasing components of immigration and migrant population increases).
Going along side that you've got a contraction in the job market as a result of several factors:
1) Mechanisation reducing the number of people needed to perform jobs
2) Outsourcing of manufacture, call centre and other high labour work to countries where its cheaper to operate.
3) Domination of the supermarket over the small shop - granted supermarkets employ many workers; but with their domination this can cause local job markets to reduce (eg country areas where many small shops cannot afford the rates nor have prices low enough to effectively compete)

Combine all that also with the fact that media and governments (very much in the UK and the USA I expect) have pushed people toward "higher" level forms of employment over the more base (eg building; waste disposal).

The result is a large number of people aiming and expecting to get in at the higher tier of job employment when there isn't the job market in that area to support them as well as an overall reduction in the need for workers in the population itself.

 

[usayit]

oh yeh, forgot to included my original thought and response...


There is no question that the media has a huge influence on peoples' attitudes and outlook. That's a no brainer. The question some forget to ponder is what came first... the chicken or the egg. Is the media reacting to a change in the population or is the population reacting to the media?

My personal feeling is that media is the scapegoat and most of us are lying to ourselves.

 

[Overread17 5]

I suspect there isn't a chicken or an egg to chase when it comes to highly complex events such as this. You'll get a few starting points - but in turn they'll have been started by something else - and so on and so on. In the "blame" culture we have you'll never fully be able to lay the blame at anyones feet directly - though you might find some key players.

I think that the media has in the past reacted, but is now very much dictating in many respects. The danger here is that the media is now very aware of its influence and effect and yet still continues to operate along similar lines. This is the dangerous part because it means that they are actively still promoting an ideal that has been recognised as not being beneficial to the population and to which many in the population itself resent when confronted with the evidence.

 

[usayit]

So I've befriended a few Indians who Have given me a good insight into their growth and experience. These are young engineers who were lucky to be in a time of expansion of opportunity in India. They are some of the most educated and driven people I know. Driven by a the prospect of a better life that they have seen proof first hand. Educational system is reacting favorably and a job market to foster growth post graduation. The American youth of 30 40 years ago probably have much in common. Media is extremely important part of their culture as well... much of it is Western media. The same media that we lay much blame.

I've heard a very different story from other countries.... of both third world status and developed nations. The biggest commonality is the lack of opportunity.. perceived or real.

I'd be interested in a perspective from a country we share much in common with.... the UK. How are the emerging youth of England fairings these days? any similarities to those here? reacting in the same manner?