When a photo you enjoy gets negative CC

[nickzou]

I only like negative C&C. Sometimes there's a misunderstand when I ask for clarification or ask for a more indepth comment it comes off as being defensive but that's not how I mean it. I generally need a little more to go on sometimes, vague statements of "oh I don't like how you did this" is useless to me, I'd rather be hearing "this is working, you should do this" that's great advice that's all I want to here. I don't like positive C&C, because first of all, that's not criticism, and second I feel as though if you can't see flaws in my work anymore, you're opinion isn't worth anything to me and I stop respecting you. It was about the time that I noticed in high school where my art teacher, who had been very strict and demanding of me in the first two years finally started to lighten up and give me praise. I looked back on my previous work and my then current work, and the looked at her work and realized she had nothing to offer in terms of tutelage anymore. At which point I basically stopped listening to her. Which is why I love it here, because no one is inclined to give good comments even if they think the work is good, they just find whatever little flaw is in there and focus on that. Which I find immensely helpful and as long as the criticism makes sense to me, you have to be critical of your own work too and think for yourself, I appreciate negative C&C more than just blatant praise.

I had another experience of this through Muay Thai. There was this trainer who was always giving me a hard time but after half a year I noticed how much stronger my kick was and how much better my timing was. At that point I realized, he as a trainer had no more to offer me because I had basically caught up to him to which I eventually just started ignoring his praise and found myself a more advanced fighter to help me out. Trust me, there's nothing more stifling than idle praise. Cut those people loose, I tend not to associate much with people who have in the past given me praise (NEVER TRUST your parents' or spouse's opinions unless they are actually willing to correct you), it does nothing but cloud your judgement and boost your ego.

 

[MLeeK]

Here's the trick with CC: Just because we are pointing out all of the "bad" or what you could have done differently/better/whatever does not make the image a BAD image. CRITICISM is criticizing. The term Constructive Criticism is kind of an oxymoron. It's like black light... You can't learn to do something differently if you are only told the good and wonderful things about the image, so people point out the errors or what could have been different.

I think EVERY image can be criticized and something could have been done differently. Part of that is also the art itself-the photographer is not the criticizing person and each of them have different visions of what their image would be. Just because the original shooter didn't make the decisions I would make when it was shot, he/she may have never thought the way I (or anyone else) does and therefor the differing point of view expands your horizons. Again, it doesn't mean it's a BAD image, it just means there are things that could be done differently and different views. give 20 photographers the same scene and you'll get 20 DIFFERING views of it.

Now if you get a slew of people who come out and say the image is bad, period? I'd have to admit and scrap it. There are certain things that I could receive in CC that would make me change my mind-such as "it's so busy I can't tell what the subject is" "It's confusing..." When people aren't seeing the subject for the subject, there's something wrong.

I am sure there are other things if I heard/read them would also make me scrap an image, but my brain is done thinking for the time being.

 

[skieur]

It depends on some variables. There is a difference between a critique from a newbie versus someone who has seen thousands of images and been taking photos for several decades. There is a difference between a critique that sounds biased against particular content versus one that sounds unbiased with attention to technical and compositional detail.

At the same time talent becomes part of the mix too. Perceptive comments can come from beginners as well as pros as can less than valuable critique.

Speaking from critique giving experience, the problem photo is one with a number of positive strengths and negative weaknesses. It is difficult to say how many of these strengths and weaknesses would be seen by the average viewer and which way the balance is tipped towards pass or fail. Fortunately we don't see too many of these kinds of photos.

skieur

 

[skieur]

I'm gonna borrow bits and pieces from something I posted earlier which I believe resoundshere.

It goes back to the big question. Who are you trying to appeal to? Yourself, or others? Therein lies your answer .

Well, I think that most people with a realistically limited ego want affirmation or confirmation from others that they have photographic talent and/or are producing quality work. It is pretty difficult to ignore everyone who says your work is "crap" and produce more of the same because you personally like it. As an amateur you may be able to do it; if you want to be a highly successful pro, it is not possible.

skieur

 

[mjhoward]

Words of Wisdom from Ricky Nelson: "You can't please everyone so you've got to please yourself."

Words of wisdom from Mitch Hedburg: "You can't please all the people all the time and last night all those people were at my show."

 

[Sammie_Lou]

My thoughts are that if you're so dead set that a photo that you've taken is amazing that you're not going to take anyone's C&C into account, what's the point of asking for C&C?? So that you can tell everyone that they're wrong and that your photo is amazing?? Kinda pointless, if you ask me...

 

[raphaelaaron]

the problem with pleasing only yourself can border on grand delusion.

there are a lot of people out there who refuse to listen to criticism on their work, and still believe they are in fact 'talented' photographers. because of that, their own work suffers.
nothing good usually comes out of it, unless he or she actually causes some paradigm shift in creating good photos. however, that isn't as common as one would hope.

but i don't mean to get too philosophical, just putting in the way i see things.

 

[rexbobcat]

My thoughts are that if you're so dead set that a photo that you've taken is amazing that you're not going to take anyone's C&C into account, what's the point of asking for C&C?? So that you can tell everyone that they're wrong and that your photo is amazing?? Kinda pointless, if you ask me...

Right. But some criticism is just trivial or subjective. And, to be honest, anyone could find something wrong with every single photograph taken, even those taken by professionals. There comes a point to where the criticisms become less constructive, and more like subjective opinion. I like getting good criticism, but what I've found is that criticism is rarely positive. Most positive comments I get on photos include "great shot!" Even though this is a beginner's forum, sometimes I don't think newbies get enough credit for what they do correctly.

I hope all of this makes sense. I'm typing from an iPhone, and it's hard to collect my thoughts when I'm busy trying to press the right buttons lol.

 

[GrantH]

Start a thread titled "HILARIOUS!" and cry about it? Always funny (no pun intended) how these type of threads gather multiple pages yet a quality conversation about technique or something useful doesn't.

 

[blackrose89]

My CC process is this: is I try to seek out the negative first to myself and state what I think is wrong with the photo before I post it, so people know I am aware and not someone who is super in love with her photos.. After I post it or them, I post it multiple on photography sites. First I try to distinguish between opinion and fact. Basically I try to listen to more technical advice (ie focus, lighting, distracting background, composition etc) then personal opinion. I take in everyone's CC and try to see if there is a repeating pattern in a critique. If I can I address the problem, I immediatly do. I recently posted up some photos from a parade and I saw potentional in them. I heard they were too dark, and too busy. So I edited them and they look like more presentable photos now, and I have gotten quite a few compliments on them.
I posted beach photos a few weeks ago, and same thing.

Now today, I tried photographing an old shed in an abandoned overgrown area. EPIC FAIL!!!! LOL! A few people said that they didn't like the background, but I wanted the background to be busy and overgrown and only like 2 people said that so I wasn't too worried. The other complaint was the sun was shining too much through some trees and was distracting. I was more then willing to fix it and fill in the distracting spots. But the #1 complaint was the shed itself. It is plastic, looks brand new and way too clean so it screwed up the vibe of the photo. I did not get one compliment. So I chalk it up to a photo fail.

But thanks to CC my super fails are becomming less and less.

I just don't want to be one of these teen girls on Flickr who just shoots random stuff and blurs or bokehs the background and thinks they are a photographic genius! I want to be a photographer who people can take seriously.

I also seriously agree to never ask family/friends. You will never grow this way. Even if they are willing to be brutally honest, they may not have the knowledge to help you grow.

 

[blackrose89]

Start a thread titled "HILARIOUS!" and cry about it? Always funny (no pun intended) how these type of threads gather multiple pages yet a quality conversation about technique or something useful doesn't.

HAHAHHAHAHA!! Yep that's what I gonna do!!!

 

[MLeeK]

My thoughts are that if you're so dead set that a photo that you've taken is amazing that you're not going to take anyone's C&C into account, what's the point of asking for C&C?? So that you can tell everyone that they're wrong and that your photo is amazing?? Kinda pointless, if you ask me...

Right. But some criticism is just trivial or subjective. And, to be honest, anyone could find something wrong with every single photograph taken, even those taken by professionals. There comes a point to where the criticisms become less constructive, and more like subjective opinion. I like getting good criticism, but what I've found is that criticism is rarely positive. Most positive comments I get on photos include "great shot!" Even though this is a beginner's forum, sometimes I don't think newbies get enough credit for what they do correctly.

I hope all of this makes sense. I'm typing from an iPhone, and it's hard to collect my thoughts when I'm busy trying to press the right buttons lol.

BUT... Like Kieth said that "good shot" is not positive CC. It's a positive statement, but it does nothing to help the requesting person grow or learn.
POSITIVE CC is the pointing out the negative aspects of the image (criticism) AND how they could have been corrected (constructive.)
It's not simply "your composition is poor." It's more like "your composition is very centered. Try using the rules of good composition to create a better image...." along with providing the rules of composition, blah blah blah. It's CONSTRUCTIVE. It's like getting back a test with the right answers or the methods to get the right answers on the ones you got wrong.

 

[MLeeK]

My CC process is this: is I try to seek out the negative first to myself and state what I think is wrong with the photo before I post it, so people know I am aware and not someone who is super in love with her photos.. After I post it or them, I post it multiple on photography sites. First I try to distinguish between opinion and fact. Basically I try to listen to more technical advice (ie focus, lighting, distracting background, composition etc) then personal opinion. I take in everyone's CC and try to see if there is a repeating pattern in a critique. If I can I address the problem, I immediatly do. I recently posted up some photos from a parade and I saw potentional in them. I heard they were too dark, and too busy. So I edited them and they look like more presentable photos now, and I have gotten quite a few compliments on them.
I posted beach photos a few weeks ago, and same thing.

Now today, I tried photographing an old shed in an abandoned overgrown area. EPIC FAIL!!!! LOL! A few people said that they didn't like the background, but I wanted the background to be busy and overgrown and only like 2 people said that so I wasn't too worried. The other complaint was the sun was shining too much through some trees and was distracting. I was more then willing to fix it and fill in the distracting spots. But the #1 complaint was the shed itself. It is plastic, looks brand new and way too clean so it screwed up the vibe of the photo. I did not get one compliment. So I chalk it up to a photo fail.

But thanks to CC my super fails are becomming less and less.

I just don't want to be one of these teen girls on Flickr who just shoots random stuff and blurs or bokehs the background and thinks they are a photographic genius! I want to be a photographer who people can take seriously.

I also seriously agree to never ask family/friends. You will never grow this way. Even if they are willing to be brutally honest, they may not have the knowledge to help you grow.

That is awesome!! Just make sure you aren't ONLY looking for patterns. Each bit of insight you get has something that can spark something within you. We each have a different style and those who have something very different from the norm to say sometimes are the very valuable critiques. Sometimes they're just plain garbage too, but make sure you are giving them enough serious consideration to arrive at that garbage conclusion.

 

[rexbobcat]

BUT... Like Kieth said that "good shot" is not positive CC. It's a positive statement, but it does nothing to help the requesting person grow or learn.
POSITIVE CC is the pointing out the negative aspects of the image (criticism) AND how they could have been corrected (constructive.)
It's not simply "your composition is poor." It's more like "your composition is very centered. Try using the rules of good composition to create a better image...." along with providing the rules of composition, blah blah blah. It's CONSTRUCTIVE. It's like getting back a test with the right answers or the methods to get the right answers on the ones you got wrong.

I think I was meaning positive reinforcement. I like getting criticism, but sometimes it seems that new idea can take a great shot even if by luck, and it's more likely to get slammed than if it was posted in he professional forum. Some of the shots in that forum are...um...in my opinion mediocre. But the chances of someone saying that are much lower. I don't know. I'm not trying to sound like I'm complaining or being fussy. I've just been observing the trends and how photographer status sometimes effects how an audience receives the images.

Maybe it's just me. Sorry for the rant. I'm tired tonight. Ha

 

[MLeeK]

You're probably right in that we tend to skip over the good and only go for what we can improve upon. Sometimes it's a time/hurry thing. Most of all I think it's an "understood" thing. If your exposure is good and no one tells you it's bad, do you really need to be told it's good? Not exactly the 'friendliest' approach, but "if it ain't broke don't fix it" is kind of how this works for most giving the critique.
Many of us TRY to remember to say this is right, good whatever.. that... but when I am hurrying through a bunch of posts and see something smack dab in my face that I can help with I am hurrying up to type what I have to say and move on. KWIM? It's like I said in my previous answer. It doesn't mean your photo is BAD and that's is really important to remember. They are only stressing what you could have done differently.
Best way to do it? No, probably not. I'd much rather have the negatives pointed out to me by my peers in a place like this. I have my family and friends to blow sunshine and rainbows up my ass all day long. they're there for all of the positive reinforcement I need. THese guys in here can SERIOUSLY help me grow if they rip me apart.

I also think it's a matter of getting to the mind set. You are new at this and you still need the encouragement that you are on the right road or your photography is good to people other than your friends and family. It's a confidence thing. You'll get over it. I promise. You'll get to where you KNOW it's a good image and don't need to be told that, you need someone to PUSH you to the next level by tearing the hell out of you.