Where Have All The Flowers Gone

[smoke665]

Scrolling through the old posts and galleries this morning, and the lead in to old Kingston Trio song popped into my brain -

"Where have all the flowers gone
Long time passing
Where have all the flowers gone
Long time ago"

Over the years there's been some really great work posted by professional level photographers. Names that I followed closely and learned from, now they are strangely absent from TPF. My first thought was, just the normal ebb and flow on a forum, but as I scrolled it appeared to be more of a trend, getting worse with each passing year. Are these photographers just to busy to share, are they going to other social media sites, or is it just a wanning interest in all social media. All thats left of them are the graveyard threads, until one day they'll be gone, much like the final verse of the song.

"Where have all the graveyards gone
Long time passing
Where have all the graveyards gone
Long time ago"

 

[terri]

Stolen by IG!

It's anyone's guess, Smoke. I would guess a mashup of everything you just tossed out up there - and don't forget the unknown effects of the pandemic on people's personal lives.

 

[smoke665]

Stolen by IG!

It's anyone's guess, Smoke. I would guess a mashup of everything you just tossed out up there - and don't forget the unknown effects of the pandemic on people's personal lives.

The pandemic seems to be drifting into history, I've talked with a few photographers that are now starting to get really busy, so maybe they don't have time????? The other thought might be that people are burned out on the internet after being stuck with nothing else to do for so long.

I have to also wonder if the lack of really outstanding work by a variety of people is having an effect on the POTM nominations. The pickings have been slim of late. There's the occasional good work out there, but it's usually by a few of the same people or the same thing. The variety, of artists/subject just isn't there anymore.

 

[Strodav]

Why would a professional post images in the galleries on a limited forum when they can post them on sites like Vero, Flickr and even Instagram where they can get a lot more followers? There are a whole bunch of new sites where they can sell their work. I follow 4 forums: uglyhedgehog.com, thephotoforum,com, backcountrygallery.com, and Nikonians.org. So much of the forum posts are around 4 topics: what gear to buy, speculating on new gear coming out, help with using gear, and arguing on topics like m4/3rds vs aps-c vs ff, whether to use protective filters, sensor size, ... My guess is that a professional's time is better used getting out and taking good photos.

Just a final thought. I have posted photos in various forum galleries, some specifically requesting feedback, and the feedback I got was not very helpful and probably less so for a professional photographer.

 

[terri]

Yeah, I guess if you're a professional, "getting followers" online is the ticket.

TPF never was, nor ever will be, designed for individual sales and self-promotion. It's here as actual "social media" - post your images, look at others' work, ask questions, learn, share what you've learned, and enjoy the hobby. That will involve discussions of gear as well as the "how-to's" of the industry.

If that's not everyone's cuppa, then they are right to expand their horizons to chase their dreams.

 

[terri]

Why would a professional post images in the galleries on a limited forum when they can post them on sites like Vero, Flickr and even Instagram where they can get a lot more followers? There are a whole bunch of new sites where they can sell their work. I follow 4 forums: uglyhedgehog.com, thephotoforum,com, backcountrygallery.com, and Nikonians.org. So much of the forum posts are around 4 topics: what gear to buy, speculating on new gear coming out, help with using gear, and arguing on topics like m4/3rds vs aps-c vs ff, whether to use protective filters, sensor size, ... My guess is that a professional's time is better used getting out and taking good photos.

Just a final thought. I have posted photos in various forum galleries, some specifically requesting feedback, and the feedback I got was not very helpful and probably less so for a professional photographer.

Try the C&C Gallery and follow the giudelines for your posting. That's the place to be specific -the general galleries may not yield much beyond "Nice shot!" which isn't helpful if you're waiting for someone to notice your composition or editing.

 

[CherylL]

I miss the pro portrait photographers that were regulars here on TPF. When I first joined I liked reading the critique on portraits. If someone posted a portrait for C&C, I would first try to guess what they say with their pro eyes before I scrolled and read. Learning to look at photos through their eyes helped me plus all of the links posted for more insight were very helpful.

There are still a few portrait people here that give valuable advice like Bill @smoke665

 

[Strodav]

Try the C&C Gallery and follow the giudelines for your posting. That's the place to be specific -the general galleries may not yield much beyond "Nice shot!" which isn't helpful if you're waiting for someone to notice your composition or editing.

So I went tot he gallery and read the Read Me First post. Provide technical detail, theme, what are you trying to accomplish, ... In the reviewer section, it specifically says don't just say "nice shot". So far so good. Opened the image at the top of the queue, which is a link to Flickr, no technical detail and guess what? First comment was nice shot. The 2nd image has no technical detail, but the feedback was a bit more helpful. I'll give it a try, but it doesn't look promising.

 

[smoke665]

Why would a professional post images in the galleries on a limited forum when they can post them on sites like Vero, Flickr and even Instagram where they can get a lot more followers

In today's world passive income from monetizing followers on a site can be very lucrative, but it seemed like there was a time when they also wanted to give back. Early on I gleaned a lot of knowledge on TPF. Now I try to give back when I can.

There are two types of critique....Opinions and Technical. The first has a lot of gray area, the second not so much. I would rather have one critique that's 99% invalid and 1% spot on, than a 1000 likes. Over the years I've learned enough that I can scan the rubble to pick out that 1% nugget, and that makes it worthwhile. "Likes" do nothing to help us improve. I had high hopes for the C&C thread @terri suggested, but there's been a struggle to get people to follow the instructions for posting. If you do it right it forces you to actually critique analyze your own work. It's not that hard, but I've heard comments "oh I don't want to do all that, it's to much work".

I miss the pro portrait photographers that were regulars here on TPF. When I first joined I liked reading the critique on portraits. If someone posted a portrait for C&C, I would first try to guess what they say with their pro eyes before I scrolled and read. Learning to look at photos through their eyes helped me plus all of the links posted for more insight were very helpful.

There are still a few portrait people here that give valuable advice like Bill @smoke665

I do as well, some of the lighting advice I've gotten over the years has been golden. As to advice, I think we give and take about equally!

 

[Strodav]

In today's world passive income from monetizing followers on a site can be very lucrative, but it seemed like there was a time when they also wanted to give back. Early on I gleaned a lot of knowledge on TPF. Now I try to give back when I can.

There are two types of critique....Opinions and Technical. The first has a lot of gray area, the second not so much. I would rather have one critique that's 99% invalid and 1% spot on, than a 1000 likes. Over the years I've learned enough that I can scan the rubble to pick out that 1% nugget, and that makes it worthwhile. "Likes" do nothing to help us improve. I had high hopes for the C&C thread @terri suggested, but there's been a struggle to get people to follow the instructions for posting. If you do it right it forces you to actually critique analyze your own work. It's not that hard, but I've heard comments "oh I don't want to do all that, it's to much work".



I do as well, some of the lighting advice I've gotten over the years has been golden. As to advice, I think we give and take about equally!

Constructive Criticism can be structured. For example, you can provide a template with specific items and make the reviewer supply, say, 1-5 for each item. Start with the technical merits like sharpness in right places, DOF, noise, white point, color, then move to the art side like mood, story, composition. color grading. In addition to 1-5, request comments. Maybe only allow those who post a certain number of images / month be allowed to provide CC and as part of their profile, give those who post photos an average rating, say, for technical merit and artistry.

 

[smoke665]

Constructive Criticism can be structured

While I believe in structure for those seeking critique, I disagree with structure for those giving critique, the person giving needs to be free to comment in the manner appropriate for the image and the experience level of the photographer. Most experienced photographers would take exception to critique on technical aspects, especially by neophytes., while opinions are more open for interpretation.

 

[Strodav]

While I believe in structure for those seeking critique, I disagree with structure for those giving critique, the person giving needs to be free to comment in the manner appropriate for the image and the experience level of the photographer. Most experienced photographers would take exception to critique on technical aspects, especially by neophytes., while opinions are more open for interpretation.

So add an other section for free flowing comment.

 

[smoke665]

@Strodav I think those responsible for the format on C&C did a good job. When people follow the directions on posting there seems to be a good flow of responses.

Since its introduction, the problems I've seen have been with those seeking critique. Either they don't follow the directions on providing the background information on the image, they haven't done their own self evaluation to narrow down what they seek, or they just don't post anything in the thread. I've said it before there's a lot folks that dont want an honest critique of their work, they're only in it for the "Likes".

Over the years, I've been my worst critic, ripping apart my images to find the tiniest little things I missed. Most who take photography seriously are that way, but once you get by a limited number of technical aspects, elevating an image becomes a multitude of increasingly small things, this is where many start dropping out, and where the photographers that I referred to in the OP excelled.

 

[terri]

In the reviewer section, it specifically says don't just say "nice shot". So far so good. Opened the image at the top of the queue, which is a link to Flickr, no technical detail and guess what? First comment was nice shot. The 2nd image has no technical detail, but the feedback was a bit more helpful. I'll give it a try, but it doesn't look promising.

Understood. This thread is going a bit off topic, but since it's being discussed, it's worthwhile to note that our C&C Forum moderator, Zombiesniper, has gotten busy in his personal life (happens to us all!) and hasn't been spending as much time here as he used to. That's a Forum that honestly needs constant tending, because comments like "Nice shot" should literally be deleted from that forum.

We usually have multiple section moderators to get better coverage for this very reason. People get busy, and it's better for the forum to give moderators backups.

So - off topic, but those with strong opinions and interest in helping to maintain the C&C Forum should drop me a PM. We just ask for consistency in enforcing the guidelines. People treat all the Galleries the same and it is an ongoing process to get this one singled out. We're always open to ideas!