Why are you here?

[manaheim]

^^^ on the search thing...

What you may not be aware of is that some of the questions that are asked here are literally asked at LEAST once a day. A lot of us respond to them, regardless, trying to be helpful, but it becomes tiring after a while responding to the same thing when we know there are literally HUNDREDS of posts about it.

However, we want to help, so what most of us wind up suggesting is basically... "Hey, do a quick search. There is TONS of info on this topic... then when you get your fill and if you find you still have questions, let us know what they are and we'll give you a hand."

We're not saying "use the stupid search you fricken moron"... not even close. We're saying "God please spare us from typing out that whole thing again!"

By the way, even the EXPLANATION for why people ask folks to use search has been banged out at least 10 times in the past year.

No, we DO NOT expect new folks to know this when they first come on, but I think we would very much like you new folks not to get all huffy at us for suggesting that you dive into the ENORMOUS knowledge base that is the backlog of this forum.

 

[DRoberts]

i'd also like to state that some people say "be harsh" when they are asking for cc

But they are still asking for C&C, not just a single statement saying, "This picture sucks." Ok it does suck, but tell them why you think it sucks, what they can do to improve it.
C&C is a request for specific information for improvement.
Judgement is an individuals final opinion on the subject. There is a big diference.

 

[benhasajeep]

^^^ on the search thing...

What you may not be aware of is that some of the questions that are asked here are literally asked at LEAST once a day. A lot of us respond to them, regardless, trying to be helpful, but it becomes tiring after a while responding to the same thing when we know there are literally HUNDREDS of posts about it.

However, we want to help, so what most of us wind up suggesting is basically... "Hey, do a quick search. There is TONS of info on this topic... then when you get your fill and if you find you still have questions, let us know what they are and we'll give you a hand."

We're not saying "use the stupid search you fricken moron"... not even close. We're saying "God please spare us from typing out that whole thing again!"

By the way, even the EXPLANATION for why people ask folks to use search has been banged out at least 10 times in the past year.

No, we DO NOT expect new folks to know this when they first come on, but I think we would very much like you new folks not to get all huffy at us for suggesting that you dive into the ENORMOUS knowledge base that is the backlog of this forum.

I am actually referring to a little while ago, that someone posted a reply that was an entire large paragraph. Spent the time the whole paragraph telling the person to search and somewhat what you wrote above. In that time period he could have just answered the original question. It's like he's purposly going out of his way to answer but not answer the question. It happened again just a day or so ago, probably not as bad as I am referring too, but basically the same thing.

If you are a new person excited about your new camera (new or used). And you turn it on and it doesn't work. You freak out and say I know I will ask people who will know. They come here and instead of someone saying - did you put batteries in it? Or asking some other questions. Someone says, there are hundreds of posts on this, search and you will find a lot of good answers. The person is going to be sitting there probably camera in hand waiting for a quick response. And all he gets back is a reply, look for it dummy.

What I am basically saying, is if you are on here for a long time and you have seen these questions way too many times. Either answer or provide a link to the problem. Or just not say anything. Let someone else who is willing to take the time to answer, write up an answer. Now if the person is in an advance forum and asking novice questions, maybe politely directing them back to the begginner section would be appropriate. But in the begginner section I think we need to cut the inexperienced a little slack.

 

[kundalini]

Giving the newb a nudge to use the search function is a positive approach. I have often seen the basic same question asked on the same day and certainly a few times within the week. All it takes is for them to insert a keyword(s) in the search criteria. Otherwise, we are enablers. A response of "This topic has been discussed recently, please use the search function located in the upper right of you screen." allows them gain the knowledge on their own (which has a tendancy to stick), navigate this site and lessens the spoon feeding process.

If I know of information that is off site, then I do provide a link. A lot of the newbs may not have the where-with-all to know where to look, apart from TPF, for respected websites. This is valuable information to pass along.

Being on the receiving end of short, to the points comments about the posted photo in not necessarily a bad thing. An elaborate dissertation is can often be confusing. If the OP has absorbed the first critique and wants more detailed explainations, then ask.

What pisses me off is when someone asks a question that is answered in their owners manual. If they don't have a manual, chances are high that it can be downloaded off the web. RTFM. I have at times gone and downloaded the manual, searched the index, found the information and replied back to look on page ##. Some of this is laziness by the OP, but I also realize that a new camera can be overwhelming. Help them help themselves is my approach.

Sorry..... just realized that's a lot of words, perhaps even bordering on elaborate. Lots of coffee this morning.


[EDIT] Damn Manaheim..... When I started my response, you hadn't popped in with your last response. I think we said pretty much the same thing.

 

[manaheim]

I am actually referring to a little while ago, that someone posted a reply that was an entire large paragraph. Spent the time the whole paragraph telling the person to search and somewhat what you wrote above. In that time period he could have just answered the original question. It's like he's purposly going out of his way to answer but not answer the question. It happened again just a day or so ago, probably not as bad as I am referring too, but basically the same thing.

<sigh> Not that I'm a religious man, but ever heard the parabole about teaching the man how to fish?

If you are a new person excited about your new camera (new or used). And you turn it on and it doesn't work. You freak out and say I know I will ask people who will know. They come here and instead of someone saying - did you put batteries in it? Or asking some other questions. Someone says, there are hundreds of posts on this, search and you will find a lot of good answers. The person is going to be sitting there probably camera in hand waiting for a quick response. And all he gets back is a reply, look for it dummy.

If someone posts here panicing about something, they will get a detailed response...

In fact even if they're just the 300th person today asking about which camera they should buy... they'll still get a detailed response... along with some suggestions to search.

One way or another, no one ever gets fully kicked to the curb here. If people don't like the "use search!" responses, they are just as welcome to ignore those as the rest of us are welcome to post them.

What I am basically saying, is if you are on here for a long time and you have seen these questions way too many times. Either answer or provide a link to the problem. Or just not say anything. Let someone else who is willing to take the time to answer, write up an answer. Now if the person is in an advance forum and asking novice questions, maybe politely directing them back to the begginner section would be appropriate. But in the begginner section I think we need to cut the inexperienced a little slack.

And what I'm basically saying is that it really isn't for someone else to dictate us what is and isn't acceptable response. You get the responses you will get. My advice to you would be to filter the ones mentally that you have strong issue with and move on. Some stuff is helpful, some isn't. Some stuff is just hard to swallow and you have to decide if you're going to try to internalize that or just ignore it.

You may, of course, also choose to completely ignore my advice on this topic as well.

I've said enough and I think I'm repeating myself now, so I won't say any more.

[EDIT] Damn Manaheim..... When I started my response, you hadn't popped in with your last response. I think we said pretty much the same thing.

I type WICKED FAST!

 

[chrisburke]

i would also like to add, that for what ever reason, this week a lot of the regulars (including myself) have just been kinda moody... don't know why... typically i'm not as bitchy as i've been... i guess i just get tired of the same questions and snapshots over and over again.

 

[Overread]

I put this entire problem down to the lack of Big Mike!
yes I do - when he was more around earlier he was the one who was answering many of these new member threads - answering them and moving on. I don't think I ever heard him complain about this - he just did it.
Now he has other matters which have reduced the time he can spend here- the rest of use can follow with helping as he did in the past or just remain silent - no point moaning that there are people new to the game about you were them one time not so long ago - so either help or don't hinder

 

[chrisburke]

I put this entire problem down to the lack of Big Mike!
yes I do - when he was more around earlier he was the one who was answering many of these new member threads - answering them and moving on. I don't think I ever heard him complain about this - he just did it.
Now he has other matters which have reduced the time he can spend here- the rest of use can follow with helping as he did in the past or just remain silent - no point moaning that there are people new to the game about you were them one time not so long ago - so either help or don't hinder

i wouldnt say that i'm hindering... if you take my comments personally, then maybe i am hindering, but people need to realize that you can't take things said here personally.

 

[Overread]

I just made a sweeping statment - its you who is linking it to refering to yourself

 

[benhasajeep]

<sigh> Not that I'm a religious man, but ever heard the parabole about teaching the man how to fish?

Thats my whole point. You don't teach a guy how to fish by telling him that there is a good book written on how to fish. You at least tell him the name of the book, where to get the book, or better yet you teach him!

Now not everyone has the time for that. I know that. I am only on here occasionaly when I have the ability to do so. Not saying that I am the only one who knows the right answers either, but just that I do understand time constraints. And I have read everything others are saying. I read their point and give my reply. Even though I do keep arguing my point. I do think about what the others are saying. I will change my view, if I get enough information to do so. I've been wrong in the past, and will in the future (or present).

After all that hot air I have been blowing the last 3 days. It basically comes down to. Why can't people just be a little more polite about helping those less fortunate? I am not trying to be the police officer of the beginner forum. Just 2 situations I thought were going the wrong way. And I voiced my opinion on it. Others did the same. Unfortunately it went beyond what the OP had first asked.

I guess I am just expecting too much about people being nice and helpful to each other.

 

[manaheim]

^^^ frankly it seems like most of these threads revolve around you kicking up some dust about us horrible evil monster regular people, followed by OP or someone else going "Hey, yeah! You're being a JERK!"

I, for one, have had enough of trying patiently to point out perfectly good reasons why things go the way they do, only to have you come back and spout some emotional tirade about how we're still jerks.

Whatever. I spend a ton of time on here trying to help people. I'm more than done bashing my head up against your personal world view.

Moving on...

 

[benhasajeep]

Its just the time of month for everyone, people get extra grouchy and hormonal with season change I think. People are like " why not get on the internet and unleash some photo rage?"


Some reason the "angry German Kid" comes to mind lately when their photos are critiqued

I know I have been one of the problem children. But I am not actually grouchy. I am a happy go lucky type of person. I joke a lot at work and home. And I have had a good week at work. Ordered a new camera. Things are rolling along.

2 posts I have taken interest in. I don't believe I have argued with anyone before on here. I may have chosen some inappropriate words. And maybe picking fights that really don't concern me. But when you think someone is being picked on, and no one is helping the unfortunate, someone needs to step up! The help may not have been invited. If it becomes clear of that. Then you back away and go about your own business.

The whole time I have always stated (or attempted too), why not just be friendly. Not telling anyone they have too. Not forcing it. Just saying if you can't, why go the other way and be unfriendly. Just skip it. I guess by saying that I am forcing my opinion.

 

[benhasajeep]

^^^ frankly it seems like most of these threads revolve around you kicking up some dust about us horrible evil monster regular people, followed by OP or someone else going "Hey, yeah! You're being a JERK!"

I, for one, have had enough of trying patiently to point out perfectly good reasons why things go the way they do, only to have you come back and spout some emotional tirade about how we're still jerks.

Whatever. I spend a ton of time on here trying to help people. I'm more than done bashing my head up against your personal world view.

Moving on...

Wow,

This is a defence not an argument.

I can't think of how to reply without sounding like I am arguing. It was 2 topics, now maybe this one! I have never insulted anyone or any group specifically (that I know of)! Maybe, one person where I chose some bad wording depending on how you read it (towards the beginning of the first topic). I quit the first topic when I said I would. I can't control if others agree or disagree with me, or carry on the argument. I was not specifically inciting a riot (I was not the first complainer on either of the first 2 posts!). I may have contribuited though. The first post I did exactially what I was preaching, try and help vs. disparing remarks, went down hill from there. I never said anything disparingly against the "regular" people. My whole point was why can't people be nicer or go easier to new people, or repetitive questions? I fail to see who that HURT? Maybe I am forcing my opinion. But, I can't possibly force anyone to abide by it. So again who does it hurt? Maybe I am being too much of a complainer (2-3 topics in 2 years time / 600+ posts). I don't feel so.

Sorry,

Ben

 

[chrisburke]

Maybe I am forcing my opinion.

you hit the nail on the head here.. we all give out opinions, then we move on.. you state your opinion then ***** when I dont renig on my orignal comments... I don't agree with your standpoint, and your not going to change that, no matter how many times you say the same thing over and over again... you are entilted to your opinion, but you dont need to repeat the same thing over and over again... thats what upsets people

 

[chrisburke]

^^^ frankly it seems like most of these threads revolve around you kicking up some dust about us horrible evil monster regular people, followed by OP or someone else going "Hey, yeah! You're being a JERK!"

I, for one, have had enough of trying patiently to point out perfectly good reasons why things go the way they do, only to have you come back and spout some emotional tirade about how we're still jerks.

Whatever. I spend a ton of time on here trying to help people. I'm more than done bashing my head up against your personal world view.

Moving on...

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