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Why use M when you have A?

Wouldn't it change the depth of field depending on the f stop it changes to?

EDIT: never mind that's shutter priority.
 
Sometimes though the aperture doesn't matter as much compared to the shutter speed - eg with an animal shot provided I nail the eyes in focus and capture the motion without blur (some people like leg motion blur in some sorts of shot - I can't say I am a fan of this myself) the depth of field can be razor thin - so long as it covers the eyes. Whilst on the other hand if the legs or body parts are blurred from motion the shot is over.
 
In a scenario where you were say, shooting a dog that was jumping obstacles, would you prefer to shoot in Shutter Priority, Aperture Priority, or would you dial in your exposure previous to the jump in Manual, and shoot freely, knowing your shots are going to be consistent?
 
If I need a quick shot, I use either the Av or Tv settings. (Tv is the same as Av just the reverse, you pick the shutter speed you wish to be at and the camera chooses depth of field. ) Tv was recommended to me for shooting my first wedding and I am glad that I went with that setting the majority of the time. If you prescribe to the theory that a lense is sharpest if you use the shutter speed that is reciprocal of the focal length ( a 50mm prime would be a shutter speed of 1/50th of a second minimum. You also should account for your crop factor though ).

As other stated, you may want to control the shutter speed so that you can freeze motion or allow for some motion blur for creative reasons.
 
Myself it would depend on a lot of things.
If the lighting is good so there are not worries about getting a good shutter speed and the lighting is remaining constant and I have a good idea/meter reading of what the dog will be when in the light itself and I know I won't be turning to follow the dog or change to another scene

chances are I would still use aperture priority mode because its what I'm used to shooting such scenes with. Further more since the lighting is good enough I would have to worry about forcing a certain exposure over the shot. This is unless there is a very particular type of shot I want (lets say I want to go for a sillouett in the given lighting).

I understand your argument that in contant lighting and with time to change there is no express need to use the auto modes - but I work the othe way around - - I only use manual when I have to use it.
 
In a scenario where you were say, shooting a dog that was jumping obstacles, would you prefer to shoot in Shutter Priority, Aperture Priority, or would you dial in your exposure previous to the jump in Manual, and shoot freely, knowing your shots are going to be consistent?

If the lighting conditions weren't changing, and I was just sitting there as dog after dog came by, I would absolutely use M and check the histogram to tell me how the exposure was.

However, if the lighting conditions were continually changing etc. then why not use the TV. Getting the shot at all is better than not getting the shot because you're fiddling with the buttons.
 
"If i want to over or under expose I can just adjust that by using the dial, and the camera will spit out a faster or slower shutter speed."

In this lengthy debate about the pros and cons of one mode over another, it seems to me that a basic flaw in the original poster’s thinking has been overlooked. The OP said that to over- or underexpose he simply turns a wheel and the camera gives him a new shutter speed. The thing is that this new combination of settings results in the exact same exposure as before, if using aperture priority. A glass of water can be filled up one drop at a time for a long period of time, or by a gush of water for a brief moment, either way you end up with a full glass of water: same for exposure. The camera doesn’t know you wish to over or under expose, it only knows that you added or subtracted the amount of light entering the lens. For example if you start with say, f/8 at 1/250 and decide you want more exposure so you turn the wheel to f/5.6, the camera thinks that the light just doubled and will half the shutter speed to 1/500. Both exposures are exactly the same. DOF and motion control change but not the exposure.
Or am I wrong?
 
no, he was talking about spinning the wheel and dialing in exposure compensation. Thus, the camera would think it was over/under exposing the image which it would have to do by changing the shutter speed.

Taking your water analogy it would be changing the size of the glass while maintaining the same pressure coming out. Thus, the only thing for the camera to do would be to shorten or lengthen the amount of time the water was entering the glass.
 
If you go into manual mode, you will see the same thing handled slightly different. Say the camera has a proper exposure at f2.8 and 1/500 shutter speed. But, you want it a little bit darker, you can either change the shutter speed or the aperture right? Well, if you change the shutter speed to 1/1000 what will happen? the camera will read that you are 1 stop under exposed.

If you were in AV (or whatever it says on Nikon) and you had your camera set to f2.8 it would set the shutter speed to 1/500 you could then "spin the wheel" and under expose the shot by a stop, and the camera would change the shutter speed to 1/1000.

Thus the argument currently involved. Why set it to manual when setting it to AV will do the same thing for you, only faster.
 
no, he was talking about spinning the wheel and dialing in exposure compensation. Thus, the camera would think it was over/under exposing the image which it would have to do by changing the shutter speed.

Taking your water analogy it would be changing the size of the glass while maintaining the same pressure coming out. Thus, the only thing for the camera to do would be to shorten or lengthen the amount of time the water was entering the glass.

I took it to mean turn the aperture wheel, not exposure compensation wheel.
 
In this lengthy debate about the pros and cons of one mode over another, it seems to me that a basic flaw in the original poster’s thinking has been overlooked. The OP said that to over- or underexpose he simply turns a wheel and the camera gives him a new shutter speed. The thing is that this new combination of settings results in the exact same exposure as before, if using aperture priority. A glass of water can be filled up one drop at a time for a long period of time, or by a gush of water for a brief moment, either way you end up with a full glass of water: same for exposure. The camera doesn’t know you wish to over or under expose, it only knows that you added or subtracted the amount of light entering the lens. For example if you start with say, f/8 at 1/250 and decide you want more exposure so you turn the wheel to f/5.6, the camera thinks that the light just doubled and will half the shutter speed to 1/500. Both exposures are exactly the same. DOF and motion control change but not the exposure.
Or am I wrong?
Nice analogy.
no, he was talking about spinning the wheel and dialing in exposure compensation. Thus, the camera would think it was over/under exposing the image which it would have to do by changing the shutter speed.

Taking your water analogy it would be changing the size of the glass while maintaining the same pressure coming out. Thus, the only thing for the camera to do would be to shorten or lengthen the amount of time the water was entering the glass.
And nice explaination of how exposure compensation works using that analogy.
 
gotcha,

yeah, that's not what he was talking about. It does make your response make more sense though.
 
In a scenario where you were say, shooting a dog that was jumping obstacles, would you prefer to shoot in Shutter Priority, Aperture Priority, or would you dial in your exposure previous to the jump in Manual, and shoot freely, knowing your shots are going to be consistent?

If the lighting conditions weren't changing, and I was just sitting there as dog after dog came by, I would absolutely use M and check the histogram to tell me how the exposure was.

However, if the lighting conditions were continually changing etc. then why not use the TV. Getting the shot at all is better than not getting the shot because you're fiddling with the buttons.

Nate, the scenario you set forth, with a dog, or say a human high jumper, jumping an obstacle is a good one. One reason NOT to use a Tv or as other makers call it, Shutter Priority automatic setting, is that if the light level is constantly changing, so will be the f/stop one is given.

Outdoors in the spring time, with a jumping event like high jump, the photographer using Aperture Priority Aurtomatic picks an ISO setting, let's say ISO 800, so that he can get a wide aperture, let's say f/3.5, and a high shutter speed like 1/2000 second. F/3.5 with a 200 to 300mm lens will provide a limited depth of field, effectively blurring the background on each and every frame shot. The shutter speed will always be the fastest it can be, given the f/stop selected. If the sun peeks out from behind a cloud, the shutter speed might go up to 1/6000 second. If a dark rain cloud passes by the sun, the shutter speed might drop to 1/1200 second. In any and all cases, the background will be blurred by the pre-selected aperture. If the camera were in Time Value, the lens would yo-yo the aperture smaller whenever the sun peeks out, often greatly increasing the depth of field and bringing the background more into focus.

The danger in Tv shooting comes when one "runs out of f/stop" to use the old expression. In Time Value, if you pick a Time that is very fast, let's say 1/2000 second, and your subject runs from the bright part of the course into the shade, your lens might not have a wide-enough maximum aperture; the system will decide to lower the shutter speed so far that blurred photos will result. In action photography,with a long lens like a 300mm lens, combined with a moving subject, the real priority is controlling the focus for proper depth of field to keep the background under control, and making the proper "picture". If the camera is in Time Value mode and the light level drops substantially, or the subject moves from a bright area to a darker area, the camera can easily be required to drop the shutter speed into the range where you "run out of f/stop". If you have your lens wide-open on a cloudy day at let's say f/4, you are fine in the sun as long as the ISO is high enough. If the light level drops, the TV will have no additional wider aperture to select, and it will "run out of f/stop",and the shutter speed will be forced to drop--often to the point of blurring the subjects' movements.

This is why Nikon came up with the Auto ISO setting that Canon refused to implement for so long...in situations like track and field, where many running events have action that alternates between open sunlight and deep shade created by a huge stadium's shadow, it is advisable to set a wide aperture and allow the camera to adjust the shutter speed on the fly. Without AUTO ISO, using a TV or SHutter-Priority setting, the photographer's a camera might mess up the exposures pretty badly as the action goes from in the sun to the shaded parts. On the 200 meters for example, there are four to five seconds where the runners are in sunlight, and then for the remaining part of the race, the runners are in the shadow of the stadium. Same with the 100, and the end of the 400 and 800 meters. Aperture Priority automatic is the mode where the photographer will not be fumbling with settings....Time Value is very,very risky unless the lighting is fairly steady and/or the camera has an AUTO ISO mode where the ISO will shift on the fly to compensate for the "loss of f/stop". So, basically, most shooters will probably go for Aperture Priority Auto when shooting most sports events, knowing that a large,wide aperture will ALWAYS provide a constant Depth of field/background control and will always provide the fastest shutter speed possible, given the prevailing lighting conditions. Even if the subject moves through a course where there are sunlighted and shaded parts.
 
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Outdoors in the spring time, with a jumping event like high jump, the photographer using Aperture Priority Aurtomatic picks an ISO setting, let's say ISO 800, so that he can get a wide aperture, let's say f/3.5, and a high shutter speed like 1/2000 second. F/3.5 with a 200 to 300mm lens will provide a limited depth of field, effectively blurring the background on each and every frame shot. The shutter speed will always be the fastest it can be, given the f/stop selected. If the sun peeks out from behind a cloud, the shutter speed might go up to 1/6000 second. If a dark rain cloud passes by the sun, the shutter speed might drop to 1/1200 second. In any and all cases, the background will be blurred by the pre-selected aperture. If the camera were in Time Value, the lens would yo-yo the aperture smaller whenever the sun peeks out, often greatly increasing the depth of field and bringing the background more into focus.

This is why if using AV the photographer has to select an Aperture he is happy with. If he isn't happy with it he can change it. I suppose your biggest argument here seems to be the DOF changing and not being stable. Of course the problem is you have to deal with it some way. If you don't change the settings you will have to deal with over/under exposed images.

Also, I have no idea what the "picking the ISO" has to do with anything. You have to pick the ISO if you're using M or AV or TV for that matter. How does that matter one way or the other to the topic at hand?

If you pick a Time that is very fast, let's say 1/2000 second, and your subject runs from the bright part of the course into the shade, your lens might not have a wide-enough maximum aperture; the system will decide to lower the shutter speed so far that blurred photos will result.

If you use TV the camera will always take the image at the shutter speed you select. Thus, what will happen is if you "run out of f/stop" the camera does not lower the shutter speed, the image is merely underexposed. If this happens this is operator error, and something that the photographer would have to deal with anyway.
 
Sorry if this is a dumb question but I have a question about using aperture priority mode vs. manual mode - Currently, I shoot most of my photos in aperture priority, and wondered why ppl suggest using manual mode when ap.priority seems to much easier?
Manual setting of shutter speed / aperture is use to control one or both parameters to achieve a particular affect AND set the exposure to place the scene/object in a particular zone range.

Example ...
I am shooting a rock outcropping in a forested area.
I manually set the Aperture to f2.8 because I want to blur the background.
I meter the rock and find the appropriate shutter speed to place it in Zone IV (which is not the metered reading as it will place it in Zone V ... and I want the rock to be 1 stop more exposed).
 

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