WTB - a range of DSLRs

[FrankLamont]

Now, I'm not new to photography. Been doing it about four years. So, not experienced, as such, but not a complete stranger to photography.

I've had 5 cameras, but none DSLRs. So it's time, I'm thinking.

And, of course, entry-level DSLRs.

Here are my few options:

- Canon EOS 450D/Rebel XSi
- Nikon D60
- Olympus E-520
- Pentax K200D
- Samsung GX20

From what I've heard:
- D60 is in-the-middle on price, so I wouldn't mind getting it... but photo quality, noise... when blown up? Is the quality good, or mediocre? And inaccurate colours?
- K200D apparently has quite some noise at 800 and upwards (ISO)... and is the colour wrong, like the D60?
- EOS 450D/RebelXSi... seems to be perfect. Only thing is, it's about four hundred bucks more.
- The GX20 seems to have problems with noise at 800 ISO +, and basic image quality.
- The E-520 has apparently a lot of noise at high ISO levels and quality in its images are lacking.

I'm not looking for their range of lenses, because all of them have the lens that I can live with.

In Australia, the K200D is the cheapest, or on par with the D60. The E-520 is also around that area. So, they're about $600-800. The GX20 is slightly more, coming in at $1000 or thereabouts. The EOS 450D is the most expensive, at $1300 +.

I'm looking for good image quality and low noise at high ISO levels.

If what I've heard is wrong, then by all means please mention it.

Your help is appreciated. :thumbup:

 

[ANDS!]

Refurbished D80 - if they have them down under. If not get a D90 - pretty much same sensor as the D300.

At the end of the day, the Nikon and Canon will be your best choice (as far as price and "community" is concerned - when it comes time to grab lenses or other accessories, do you want to be bogged down by the limitations inherent in those other systems?)

 

[Overread]

at this range of cameras ISO 800 is probably going to be your max no matter which one you pick - greater than that and noise will start to be an issue. I use the older 400D and I don't go above ISO 400 if I can help it - 800 is the limit, beyond that its way too much noise for my liking.

As a point I have noticed that Pentax is getting harder to find the lenses for it (though it appears to have good older stock in the 2nd hand market I think).

 

[inTempus]

- Canon EOS 450D/Rebel XSi

Good body, has a CMOS sensor (modern) and uses EF and EF-S lenses. So you can use just about any modern Canon lens (or those offered by 3rd parties).

- Nikon D60

Has an older CCD sensor also lacks an autofocus motor on the body. This limits you with lens selection.

- Olympus E-520

Can't really comments about this body.

- Pentax K200D

Judging by what others here who own them think of them, these seem to be pretty good cameras. When it comes to renting lenses or finding accessories here in the states, you're more likely to find Canon and Nikon on every store shelf whereas you might have to shop a little more (and online) to find Pentax specific accessories. I don't know what the market is like down under. As far as high ISO noise, you would have to defer to owners and their comments. If you've read this from owners, then I would take it into consideration.

- Samsung GX20

Again, can't comment on this body.

Of those in the list, I personally would take the Canon. It will work with most Canon accessories and all modern lenses, it has a modern CMOS sensor, and it's made by one of the most popular and well known manufacturers. If you need service, finding an authroized service center will be easy. This is also true of Nikon. Don't discount this, all cameras need service at some point, even preventative maintenance is a good idea.

If you go outside of this list, I wouldn't go with a D80 over a something like an XSi, mostly because of the differences in sensors (CCD vs. CMOS). The first Nikon I would consider would be the D90 as it's the first in their product line to use the more modern CMOS sensor. At that price you could get a metal framed Canon 40D vs. the plactic bodied D90. If the plastic body isn't a concern for you, the the D90 offers outstanding image quality and a host of features found on their more expensive models like the D300.

I personally would stick with Nikon or Canon.

 

[FrankLamont]

I'm also considering the 1000D. However, unlike the 450D, it doesn't have spot metering - which, to be really honest, I only know has something to do with exposure; unsure about further details -, has a smaller LCD, and only has a 7 point AF compared to 9 pt on the 450D. The 450D is better, somehow, if you want to crop, according to reviews (though I don't see why, exactly), has 14-bit for depth compared to the 1000D, and has 3.5 fps instead of 3ps (although that isn't important so much to me). But the 1000D is a lot cheaper and a lot faster than the 450D, and basically has around the same level of image quality.
---
Additionally, others have said that the ISO noise on the Pentax is barely apparent.

 

[Gomes]

I have a d60 and am very happy with it, but personally id look at a d40. Throw the money you save into some lenses.

 

[flea77]

Fast glass solves any high ISO problem

Allan

 

[AlexColeman]

Did you consider the D90?

 

[jordan!]

I have the Pentax K200D. The high ISO noise on the K200D isn't bad. It's definitely harder to find Pentax gear new in stores, but the older Pentax lenses can be found pretty easily in used camera stores and on eBay for really good prices. Any K mount stuff and even screw mount stuff will work (with an adapter) on the K200, which is awesome if you don't mind manual focus, because they're dirt cheap.

As far as the colors being "wrong," they're definitely a little saturated, but if you shoot RAW then you're all set.

The K200D is a pretty rugged camera too, so if you're used to old film cameras that are pretty much all metal, it feels pretty nice, but it's also a downside sometimes because it is heavier than some other cameras you mentioned.

One big thing to keep in mind with the K200D is that it's continuous shooting is pretty crappy. I think it's something like 2fps and the buffer can only hold 4 shots before it's full. If you shoot JPEG on continuous low speed, it will shoot 1.1fps until the card is full.

It is weather-sealed which is pretty cool for an entry level camera. I don't know if you'd want to take it out in a hurricane or a flood, but it does fine with dust and light rain/snow.

Hopefully that wasn't too long and rambling. I know a couple other people on here shoot Pentax and are a LOT more experienced than me.

 

[anubis404]

You're worrying too much about the bodies and not enough about the family of lenses you are committing too. All are fine cameras that you would most likely be happy with. Research their lenses and make a choice from there. At the end of the day, the lense is the tool that matters.

 

[FrankLamont]

All right, narrowed down to:
- EOS 450D
- Nikon D60
- (D80 & D90? read below for why)

Although people say that you should skip the D60 and get a D80 instead. Since a D80 is ~ the price of a 450D, yes, that could be done. But then they say get a D90 instead of a D80. So: is the D90 really worth the bump in price; the extra $150? I'm more concerned that the only thing making it more expensive is the D-mode, which I don't really need. If that's really all making the D90 better, then I might as well get the D80. But if image quality is a lot better, and I know that there's one more ISO level, LiveView... but only goes down to ISO 200.

So it really builds down: I'd only pay $150 for somewhat better image quality, not so much LiveView, and I definitely would get rid of the D-mode if I could. Still, thoughts?

---
EDIT: Well, contrary to what I aforementioned, the D90 is a considerable amount more... although accurate figures would be nice, so if you could tell me, that would be handy. If the price difference is more than $200, or at the most, $300, then I'll just stick to D80.

And then there's the other question... D60 or D80...:er:

 

[Slaphead]

And then there's the other question... D60 or D80...:er:

Using the same lens the difference in image quality between these two cameras is practically zero (same CCD sensor)

The d80 has a lot more bells and whistles such as more focus points (11 compared with 3), easier access to frequently used settings such as ISO, white balance and exposure compensation, Flash commander mode for off camera flash, and the big deal for many here - an inbuilt autofocus motor. It's a lot more suited to the enthusiast photographer.

If you think you're going to use older lenses that require the cameras motor to focus then go for the D80

If you think you're going to do off camera flash then go for the D80

You won't outgrow the D80 as fast as you will the D60 and if you're really into photography the D80 would serve you better.

All that said, the d60 is a nice little camera and the kit lens that comes with it, although plastic cheap and light, it is actually quite a sharp lens and has VR. Pair that with the Nikkor 55-200 VR and you have quite a nice little setup which will cover most general photography. (God, I almost sounded like Ken Rockwell then :shock

 

[potownrob]

Using the same lens the difference in image quality between these two cameras is practically zero (same CCD sensor)

The d80 has a lot more bells and whistles such as more focus points (11 compared with 3), easier access to frequently used settings such as ISO, white balance and exposure compensation, Flash commander mode for off camera flash, and the big deal for many here - an inbuilt autofocus motor. It's a lot more suited to the enthusiast photographer.

If you think you're going to use older lenses that require the cameras motor to focus then go for the D80

If you think you're going to do off camera flash then go for the D80

You won't outgrow the D80 as fast as you will the D60 and if you're really into photography the D80 would serve you better.

All that said, the d60 is a nice little camera and the kit lens that comes with it, although plastic cheap and light, it is actually quite a sharp lens and has VR. Pair that with the Nikkor 55-200 VR and you have quite a nice little setup which will cover most general photography. (God, I almost sounded like Ken Rockwell then :shock

+1 to what he said :thumbup:. To be honest, most newer lenses are AF-S so, unless you plan to do a lot of work with prime (fixed focal length) lenses like the 50mm f/1.8, the D60 is a good bet and probably easier for a dSLR newbie to operate. It's true the D80 has lots of cool extra features and settings though, but will he use them? The D90 is out of question since it costs twice as much as the entry level cameras listed here, plus I don't think the OP really needs it. I don't understand how CMOS sensors are far superior to CCD sensors, just because CCD is older technology. I think this generalization has to be taken on a case by case (or camera by camera) basis. Some will even argue that CCD is better than CMOS. I don't think it's necessarily what kind of sensor is used but rather how the camera uses it. Just look at the photos people have made using cameras with CCD sensors...

 

[tsaraleksi]

+1 to what he said :thumbup:. To be honest, most newer lenses are AF-S so, unless you plan to do a lot of work with prime (fixed focal length) lenses like the 50mm f/1.8, the D60 is a good bet and probably easier for a dSLR newbie to operate. It's true the D80 has lots of cool extra features and settings though, but will he use them? The D90 is out of question since it costs twice as much as the entry level cameras listed here, plus I don't think the OP really needs it. I don't understand how CMOS sensors are far superior to CCD sensors, just because CCD is older technology. I think this generalization has to be taken on a case by case (or camera by camera) basis. Some will even argue that CCD is better than CMOS. I don't think it's necessarily what kind of sensor is used but rather how the camera uses it. Just look at the photos people have made using cameras with CCD sensors...

All you really need to know about CCD vs. CMOS is that Nikon has dropped CCD from its professional cameras, as has Canon, even longer ago, and the switch to CMOS has been one of the major things allowing Nikon to pull even with Canon in image quality and noise performance.

 

[ANDS!]

I'm laughing at the above poster.

In any case, I would get the D80, as it is the most robust (and lauded) of those cameras. Grab one refurbished from Adorama. They were going for sub 500 bucks or so a month ago or thereabouts. If the choice is between the D60 and D80 - D80 all the way.