Can you learn to be a good photographer if your neither creative or artistic?

[Alpha]

If you're not creative/artistic then you're destined to become a blue-collar photographer. I know a few...relative masters of the technical stuff but **** for creativity. They eventually all gave it up.

 

[kundalini]

Very inspirational Alpha. *shrugs*

I read this from a recent magazine article and it resonated for me. The quote from Hemin Abramovich (not a professional, but damn good):

Before studying photography, I saw mountains as mountains and sea as sea. When I developed my knowledge and eye to a more intimate level, I came to a point where I saw that mountains are not mountains, and seas are not seas. Now that I've got closer to photography's very substance, I see mountains once again as mountains, and seas once again as seas."

That was very profound to me.

 

[patrickt]

Photography is first a craft. You first master the craft and then you can worry about whether or not you're artistic or creative. I took a photo of an attractive Muxe, sort of a transvestite but different. It's not creative. It's not artistic. But it is a photo people find interesting enough and attractive enough to buy. I have another photo that is a panorama of a local archeological site. It's pyramids on a hill with the city off to the left in the distance and a village off to the right in the distance. Nothing creative. Nothing artistic. Hey, it's a hill with pyramids. I did consider having 150 naked women running up and down the pyramids carrying sparklers but passed on the idea. People seem to like it. That's enough for me.

I have an exhibit in a gallery and the owner referred to me as an artist. I corrected him and pointed out the last exhibit had included a two-page explanation of just who the "artist" was, why he was important, and what he was trying to say with his photos. I said that he was no one special, wasn't important, and if his photos didn't convey his message without an explanation then he wasn't very good. So, my pictures went up with me as the photographer and not the artist and there was no interpretation of the photos. A clown passing on a unicycle is a clown passing on a unicycle. It doesn't represent societies crazy flight from reality. Unless, of course, you buy a print and want it to mean that.

So, master the craft and enjoy taking pictures.

 

[asfixiate]

Patrickt
Owner called you an artist and you corrected him by giving him a 2 page explanation of who the artist was? Sounds like you are good with a camera but have no self esteem. Don't self validate or self discriminate. You are your own worst critic yes but learn to take compliments and criticism of yourself and from yourself. Just take pictures and like what you do.

 

[JerryPH]

You know... this is me... I am neither very artistic nor creative as a photographer. I know this... if I stay this way, I will stay right where I am, and that is with very substandard (ok, the word I really want to use is CRAP), pictures.

I can technically disect and critique my own better than anyone else. I can look at a pic and tell you all about the lighting and be right 90% of the time.

I have difficulties getting the shot that is PLEASING to the eye, but here is the good news... you can work on it, it just takes more work (for me at least) than it did to get the technical aspects down.

This is one of the main reasons I was initially looking to shoot as a second, and you can develop your creative and artistic eye and take it to a new level.

There are some that have a TERRIBLY low amount of creativity or artistic sense, but everyone has SOME, and if you don't work hard to improve it, it gets worse instead of better.

Kind of like artistic being your right arm and creativity being your left arm and technical being your legs. If you only work out on the treadmill, your legs are strong, but your arms are weak. Spend more time on your weak areas and create a balance.

 

[MrLogic]

LaFoto & JerryPH... thank you both for the insightful posts. PatrickT as well.

 

[asfixiate]

Patrick
Both of those shots you described sounded interesting by the way. I wasn't insulting you but you're allowed to have confidence in your work without having to sell yourself short.

 

[patrickt]

Asfixiate: No, the previous exhibitor posted a two-page explanation. I don't see any magic in being an artist. I enjoy taking photos, want to be skilled in the craft, and get a total kick out of someone buying my pictures or simply enjoying them.

 

[RockDawg]

It's funny you start this thread because I'm pretty new to photography and really enjoy it, but I've been wondering the exact same thing. I am not a naturally creative or artistic person at all and I wonder if I will learn to be at least in regards to photography. The thing that has really caused me to question this is my response to a question posed to me at dpreview.com regarding a shot I posted for some C&C. This what the poster said in response to my photo:

Something a Photography teacher once told me...


Every time you press the shutter ask yourself "what am I trying to say with this capture?"
This photo leaves me asking "what are you trying to say with this capture?"


It's not great advice for this particular shot but it might help in your future shots.
This is a good snapshot but I think it lacks a focus and I don't mean the focus you get by twisting your lens
Keep at it and by all means, use your inner dialogue as you shoot... question every click, pretend each shot costs you $50 and might be the last photo you are ever remembered for.

My response/thinking is that I wasn't trying to say anything with the photo. I just thought the scene/subject matter looked nice. In fact, I've looked at thousands of pictures here and elsewhere over the last few months and not a single one has ever said anything or really conveyed a message to me. Many have looked astounding to me, but they don't "say something" to me per se.

With that said, I understand what the poster means and I realize that people usually convey or interpret things in photos and it is considered an integral component in differentiating a photo from a snapshot, but it's usually lost on me. For example, I have artwork in my house that says nothing to me. I just think it looks really nice.

Don't get me wrong, it's not that I can't handle the constructive criticism. Quite the contrary. I am truly appreciative of it. It's just that the reply really made me think and I'm concerned about my answer. I really hope this doesn't become a limiting factor for me since I really enjoy this hobby and hope to get pretty good, but I can't help but wonder.

 

[JackCooper92]

Not to state the obvious, but any half decent DSLR used with the basic composition techniques (Rule of thirds, leading line, DOP) and its easy to make something look good.

 

[MRivera]

Interestin threat...I feel the same way, "Where is my creativity?" I came to realize that in photography as I read in an article "there are no rules.. You can really do anything you want" There are so many things that one could take a picture of and maybe pull it out to be great. But it all comes from understanding the technique and the practice. This in my case will help me to understand better the way i shot and my images that would lead me to better photos/images (I hope).

 

[andrew99]

I am 100% convinced that creativity can be learned. More on this in a minute. I've been into photography for about 4 months now, and I can see a huge improvement in my photos, and also in how I can appreciate other people's photos. Four months ago I couldn't tell a good photo from a bad, but now as I'm learning more, I'm starting to understand the language of photography (if that makes any sense). There is the technical aspect, which I think anyone can learn in a matter of months, with dedicated study and practice, but the creative side is something totally different, which also has to be learned, which is what I'm talking about.

20 years ago when I was 17, I decided I wanted to learn to play electric guitar. At this time, I was completely tone deaf, I couldn't clap my hands in time with music, and I couldn't for the life of me understand what people meant when they said music had feeling. It took a little more than 10 years of practice and study every day, listening to other players, trying to figure out how they achieved certain sounds or moods on their instruments, developing my ability to hear, sense of rhythm, everything. Eventually I got pretty good and now I play in a gigging rock band, and get compliments on my playing all the time. The reason I'm telling you all this, is because if I can learn to play guitar with emotion and creativity, then anyone can learn! I was not gifted or talented in any way. Actually, I guess the only talent I had was never giving up!

Now I'm approaching photography in the same way. I'm spending a lot of time on flickr looking at amazing photos, and trying to figure out what makes them good, and how they speak to me. I think this is very important, since already I am looking at the world in a different way, and my photos are getting better. Also I strongly recommend going down to the library or book store and look for books on photographic composition. This will help you to understand how different things in a photo can give a different emotional response to the viewer, and give you the ability to create images that evoke a response that you want, so you are in control.

Sorry for the rambling post. Bottom line is, don't give up and keep learning!

 

[asfixiate]

I saw a show yesterday called Retired Living TV and they had a photographer on it that has been behind a camera for about 50 or so years now. He has photographed beatles, Robert Kennedy, bunch of stuff.

One of the first things he said is he couldn't draw, couldn't paint, but he could trust his eyes.

Photography is a lot of instinct in my opinion. if you like the look of something photograph it. TRUST your eyes! If you're smart enough to join this forum and post threads chances are you're smart enough to figure out how to take interesting photos. Even to some they can be artistic. Whether its the macaroni sculputre you made when you were a kid or the amazing snowman you made yesterday this is all art. Take pictures of what you like looking at.

Better yet turn your camera off and walk around and pay attention to where your eyes go. Whatever you look at the most turn your camera on and start shooting. As long as you compose and expose them correctly they should work out.

Obviously don't be a perv...lol...but you know what I mean.

 

[Village Idiot]

I love the fact that photography is technical and artistic. I played sax through highschool and I've played guitar and bass in several bands after that. I don't feel creative enough to create songs that I feel are worthy of being exhibited. I program at work. I dropped out of two colleges that's CIS, IT, and networking programs seemed remedial and everything came from the book and was just so friggin retarded that I seriously could not force myself to attend school.

With photography, I get to excercise both aspects without overloading one or the other. You have to know the technical side to become a good photographer or else you'll come up with some amazing ideas but without the knowledge to execute them. You also have to be creative in some way or you'll know how to pose people and frame things and to get shots exactly as you see from other people and other sources but you'll never come up with a style that's your own.

Of course mistakes can become awesome pictures, but it's usually the person that knows that they're doing that's trying new and edgy things that gets the really amazing pictures...Look at the read on the Strobist blog about the photographer that was photographing the guy that was chagning the bulb on the light at the rod on the top of the Empire state building. That was a great idea and with his knowledge and creativity, he came out with a great photo that no one's ever done and no one else probably ever will.

That's the way I think of it.

 

[JerryPH]

Not to state the obvious, but any half decent DSLR used with the basic composition techniques (Rule of thirds, leading line, DOP) and its easy to make something look good.

Look technically good or make it an artistic or creative good? There is a world of difference, and I will also toss in that what "your" considered level of good is not anywhere near what "my" level of good is.

Your comment displays a touch of a lack of photographic maturity. Using "rules" is no guarantee any picture will look good, sorry, but I heartily disagree. There is more to a picture than technical perfection. Some of the most technical pics I can recall were boring and dead... yet some pics that were in black and white, blurred and technically poor brought a tear to my eye becuase they had something to say.

The discussion is concerning artistic and creativity and how it relates to being a good photographer. You think that being technically good makes you a good photographer. I say that I am technically VERY good, but I am not a good photographer, becuase my creative and artistic levels do not match my technical abilities.