Flash Sync Problem

[lennon33x]

Ok, so here is my setup

-Canon 5D with Pixel King Transmitter
-2 Neewer Strobes (connect to transceiver via PC sync cord) attached to Pixel Opas. One is a 180w and the other is a 250w
-Triopo 980 set in manual mode connected via hotshoe to the Pixel King receiver.

All are set to channel 1/group A.

I have two issues:
The first is that the Triopo flashgun fires around every other actuation. It's pretty inconsistent.
The second issue I have is that the Triopo, when hooked up to the Opas, won't sync past 1/300.

Should I suspect that it's a Pixel King problem or a Canon issue? Suggestions on modifying the setup (other than purchasing PWs)?

 

[table1349]

Mixing different lighting units always has the potential for problems.

Recovery speeds for different units will vary. The Triopo well could be taking longer to recharge than the other two units.

The "X-sync" speed of the Canon 5D is 1/200-second.

From reading on line and talking to friends that use poverty wizards, many of them report that the sync speed they can achieve tends to be slower than that of Pocket Wizards, Cyber Syncs etc.

I would suggest that the problems lay in the Triopo and the transmitters/receivers, not the 5D.

 

[Derrel]

As gryphobnslair suggested, I would lower the shutter speed on the camera to 1/200; I doubt you can get a full-exposure on a 5D CLassic unless you have high-tech triggers with micro-adjustable delay AND a divine wind blowing at your back, but you "might" be able to eke out 1/300 with a slight black band on one edge.

Second option; if the Neewer have built-in optical slaves, try using THOSE to trigger them.

For an in-camera hotshoe flash, the SOP applies; clean contacts on flash and camera. Make SURE the flash is locked in with the lock. And, this is the thing, a lot of times, older flashes or cameras that have been used A LOT, as in "a lot" can develop intermittent flash contact issues. Just a case in point: a few years back, a lot of D700 owners noticed that SB-800's would often NOT FIRE when the camera was in vertical mode (ie tall or ;portrait') on their D700's but the same flashes WOULD fire 100$ on D3 or D3s bodies. Issue??? Maybe different parts and an ever-so-slight tolerance than allowed the flash not to make perfect contact when the camera was in TALL mode? The issue happened to multiple people. Cameras are built from parts that are sub-contractor-suplied in many cases, and sometimes a few thousands out of spec if all it takes for failure. The 5D's shoe might be worn from use, or the flash foot, or both, a little bit on each surface.

I used to have an old Crown Auto Thyristor flash I got off a former wedding pro. It was beat to chit, and it did not always fire when it was HOTSHOE-mounted and in "tall" mode....but it ALWAYS FIRED when I used it that way and hooked up the PC cord as well, to the F3's PC outlet. SO, maybe try hooking the Triopo 980 up using a PC cord, and not relying solely on the hotshoe.

 

[lennon33x]

Seeing as I would only use the Triopo as a gelled supplemental flash, do you think that fighting through the errant misfires would be worth it, or trade to YN-622?

I could consistently get it (the Triopo) to misfire every other time. I love it as an on-camera flash, but OFC is a beating.

 

[Derrel]

Does the PixelKing receiver ALSO offer a direct, PC-cord to flash PC outlet connection, like I mentioned above...i.e. a double, fail-safe way to get the FIRE! signal to the flash?

If the triggering unit you've been using is new, and un-tested, it could be the triggering unit's shoe that's the dud link. I'm not trying to cast aspersions on the trigger maker, but a lot of lower-priced triggers have Quality Assurance issues, so until you can isolate and really I.D. the failure's cause, it's not clear to me that the flash is the culprit.

 

[lennon33x]

The King transmitter and receiver both have PC connections.

So is this the way you would troubleshoot?
1.) Connect PC to PC from transmitter to receiver and check for consistency?
2.) if it misfires, try PC from the 5D to the PC to the receiver?

 

[Derrel]

I'm a little bit confused on the exact way you're trying to trigger two Neweers, and then the Triopo. So, I might not be following things along exactly right with what you have in the way of triggering hardware.

My advice was on the speedlight flash; if it is hooked up to a receiver that uses a hotshoe connection, that the hotshoe or flash foot, or both **might be** the problem. I was suggesting rigging it up so that the speedlight flash and its triggering device are connected to one another using a PC CORD, or using BOTH the hotshoe AND the PC connection on the flash and the trigger, to hopefully give you a double-connection, fail-safe, reliable triggering method.

If the speedlight flash unit trips only around every other shot, that sucks...and that seems like it would be 1) faulty connection OR, 2) as gryph mentioned, maybe you're rushing speedlight and it's simply not recycled.

A battery-powered flash running off of only 4-AA alkalines, after 30 frames, can sometimes take 30 second before it's ready to fire.

 

[lennon33x]

The strobes are hooked from the opas transceivers via PC sync. The speedlight is mounted to the hotshoe

The pixel opas transceivers are compatible with the King system up to 1/8000. They're about 95% reliable. The King receiver....mehhh not so much

 

[Derrel]

The strobes are hooked from the opas transceivers via PC sync. The speedlight is mounted to the hotshoe

Well, that's what I thought in my first reply; hence me talking about speedlights that failed to fire in the camera's hotshoe, especially in portrait orientation. But then you said you'd use the speedlight as a background light. I might have misunderstood.

Again, my advice would be to connect the speedlight to the hotshoe AND ALSO hook a PC cord up to the 5D body's PC outlet, hidden on the side of the body under the plastic/rubber 'caps'.

You could cross-check the speedlight by testing its reliablity connected three ways; 1:hotshoe only 2: PC connected only 3: hotshoe AND PC-outlet connected, simultaneously.

As I mentioned, I have had experience with as hotshoe flash that would not fire reliably when sitting in the hotshoe, but which WOULD fire 100% reliably when it was hotshe- AND-PC connected.

 

[beachrat]

Nevermind. I think I figured out what you were saying.
I was confused.

 

[lennon33x]

Is the Triopo mounted on the hotshoe of the Pixel King Transmitter,which is mounted on the camera?

No, the speedlite is mounted off camera to the pixel king receiver hot shoe

 

[beachrat]

Is the Triopo mounted on the hotshoe of the Pixel King Transmitter,which is mounted on the camera?

No, the speedlite is mounted off camera to the pixel king receiver hot shoe

Took me a minute to understand that.
But,to piggyback on what Derrel was saying,try a synch cord between the flash and the receiver.

 

[lennon33x]

Update:
So after some finagling, I managed to connect PC to PC from the Triopo to the King Receiver. It's very consistent as far as firing. Thanks Derrel.

That being said, I figured out I have two issues, both related to HSS.
1.) The Triopo flashgun CANNOT do HSS. Therefore, if I'm gelling it to use as a supplemental flash for colors, I have to be aware of my shutter speed.
2.) The King Receiver cannot do HSS regardless to what it's connected to (I'm not sure about the labeled flashguns...i.e. 580ex, 430ex (ii), etc). I connected it to the strobes and can't get higher than 1/200-1/250.
3.) HOWEVER, with the Opas connected to the strobes, I can get up to 1/8000. So, if I need HSS with some power, the strobe/opas setup is the way to go.

I'm pretty frustrated that it won't work appropriately, as it is labeled to do. That being said, I'm not a professional and I don't do big shoots with 10 strobes at HSS. Therefore, I don't need PWs. If anyone is concerned about the Pixel systems, then this is my 2 cents.

 

[table1349]

From reading your last post I get the impression that may not understand HSS. The Neewer strobes you have do not do HSS. HSS is not just choosing a high sync speed. HSS involves the strobe unit putting out a series of rapid pulses of low powered flash. I don't see that the Neewers have this ability. This may help you understand HSS better. http://neilvn.com/tangents/high-speed-flash-sync/

 

[lennon33x]

I understand that the Neewer strobes aren't HSS. However, I am still able to increase my relative shutter speed to 1/8000 and decrease the amount of light received by the strobe, all while preventing the errant "black" bar from showing up as a result of the curtains closing.