Giving and Receiving C&C

[redonyx]

Maybe there should be some way to indicate the degree of C&C you want that is more effective than simply saying "please be honest". I'm all for honest feedback, even if it means my photo will be torn apart since I'll do everything I can to make the next one better.

Not everybody works this way though. I know from experience as a speaking coach that some people really need an ego boost to get hooked on something and then you can start hitting them with the real subject matter.

I had an account here a few years ago (I've completely forgotten what my login was) and there used to be a section for "harsh criticism." I was never comfortable enough to post there but the feedback there was usually bang on. I wonder if this would work again.

 

[SoonerBJJ]

Not everybody works this way though. I know from experience as a speaking coach that some people really need an ego boost to get hooked on something and then you can start hitting them with the real subject matter.

How about a separate room for people who are only looking for attaboys and ego strokes?

I can't believe we are distinguishing different types of C&C. It is either honest C&C or it is blowing sunshine. The latter is a waste of bandwidth IMHO.

 

[redonyx]

I agree entirely that all feedback should be honest but at the same time if a person's first posted photo is torn apart by harsh criticism because it really is a terrible photo, they're not likely to even want to improve. A lot of people are still under the mistaken impression that having a "good camera" makes you a "good photographer". This is entirely wrong of course but you're really not doing a beginning photographer any favours by completely shattering them.

On the other side of the coin, a whitewash is totally useless as well since it continues the thought that the art is in the camera. I skip over the posts that just say "really nice pic" since they don't do anything for me. I have friends and family to tell me my pictures are good, I came here to find out how to improve them.

On the topic of distinguishing different types of C&C, I should like to point out that honest doesn't mean pointing out all of the faults and none of the strong points. If you really hate the picture, ignore it. The way I see it C&C should have as a primary goal to encourage the photographer to continue to grow, not to put their camera up on eBay and try something different.

 

[SoonerBJJ]

I should like to point out that honest doesn't mean pointing out all of the faults and none of the strong points. If you really hate the picture, ignore it.

Nobody said it did. Honest means the good with the bad. And why should we ignore a photo we hate? Should we only c&c those we like?

 

[reznap]

More people need to read this... if you want unconditional praise, show a picture to your parents or something. ---Actually some peoples' parents are pretty harsh lol.

 

[redonyx]

Of course you shouldn't only comment on the ones you like, but at the same time, don't comment on a picture that you can't see a way to improve.

 

[manaheim]

Honestly, by and large I think communities like this are more damaging than you would think. Cloud kinda opened my eyes to this sometime back.

I mean everyone wants C&C because they want to get better, but getting better technically and getting better artistically are two MASSIVELY different things requiring a TOTALLY different set of environments. Generally speaking, getting better artistically is extraordinarily hard to do on a forum... PARTICULARLY when you consider the amount of times someone does something neat artisitcally and gets bashed up side the head and told they were "wrong" for not using the rule of thirds or (gasp!) angling your picture.

In other words, places like this actually can pretty effectively pound the creative elements out of you and make you think and produce just like everyone else in the throng.

There are those on this forum and places like it that think outside of the mere limitations of the technical requirements... cloud being one... craig being another really good example... there are others still... but they are few and far between, and for someone who isn't that experienced it's REALLY hard to tell whether these guys are the ones you should be listening to, or the 20 other people who said that unless you follow the golden mean that your picture sucks.

It's an irksome problem.

 

[IgsEMT]

:thumbup:

 

[bigtwinky]

Hey, can there be an "unthank" button? We can then "unthank" those who give crappy CC and after x amount of unthanks, they are auto banned from the forums?

I kid people...I kid... ok, I dont.

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

I would love that!

Another forum I belong to has "karma" points. And it's pretty cool. You know who you can disregard.

 

[bigtwinky]

But...then 60% of the forum would be disregarded

 

[Bitter Jeweler]

Yeah, and...?

:lmao:

 

[bigtwinky]

haha, you are a character I missed here Jeweler

 

[Overread]

You guys are so not ready for Karma points!!

besides if we had them I would aim to get negative karma (generally one gets a nice red line of boxes rather than agreen line and I like red - its a nice colour)

as for critique - anyone had a look at this recently?
http://www.thephotoforum.com/forum/...e-your-posts-get-critiques-your-work-c-c.html

 

[Gaerek]

Honestly, by and large I think communities like this are more damaging than you would think. Cloud kinda opened my eyes to this sometime back.

I mean everyone wants C&C because they want to get better, but getting better technically and getting better artistically are two MASSIVELY different things requiring a TOTALLY different set of environments. Generally speaking, getting better artistically is extraordinarily hard to do on a forum... PARTICULARLY when you consider the amount of times someone does something neat artisitcally and gets bashed up side the head and told they were "wrong" for not using the rule of thirds or (gasp!) angling your picture.

In other words, places like this actually can pretty effectively pound the creative elements out of you and make you think and produce just like everyone else in the throng.

There are those on this forum and places like it that think outside of the mere limitations of the technical requirements... cloud being one... craig being another really good example... there are others still... but they are few and far between, and for someone who isn't that experienced it's REALLY hard to tell whether these guys are the ones you should be listening to, or the 20 other people who said that unless you follow the golden mean that your picture sucks.

It's an irksome problem.

Be that as it may, if you do not know how to take a technically correct photo, how can you even possibly begin to get creative?

A ceramic artist needs to learn the technical aspects of throwing clay, using the different tools, firing the clay at the correct temperatures, using the correct glazes and firing them at the correct temperatures. Don't even get me started on other techniques such as Raku firing. The most artistic, creative person in the world, who has never worked with ceramics before, and just decides to pick it up, without learning the technical aspects of it will do nothing but create almost literal crap.

They could be doing something very creative (maybe adding a neat aspect of design, or something), but if the pot is cracked, and the glaze was over fired, or whatever, that creative aspect doesn't matter at all!

The biggest problem here is that most of the issues aren't creativity problems. They are technical problems. I've discussed this in the past, but I hate the way the so-called "Rules" of photography are taught. (I've mentioned my blog post linked in my sig about this.) It really does stifle creativity. I've seen shots that would have been absolutely stunning, if the photographer hadn't used the RoT. But, in order to be creative, you need to know what the human brain likes to see, what it doesn't like to see, and when to throw both of those out, and do something different that might be something the human brain will like to see.

I know that when I give C&C, if I see the OP trying something out of the ordinary, I'll make it a point to comment on that, and that I like the way they are trying to step out of the box. But if they tilt the photo, but everything else is wrong (out of focus, centered, wrong DoF, etc) guess what, it makes no difference at all that they tried tilting the photo, and the tilting likely makes it look worse, whereas had they understood the technical aspects of photography, it might have made for an interesting photo.