Gun technology question

[The_Traveler]

I have an acquaintance whose father is in the middle stages of a serious dementia. He threatens attacks on his family and gets very agitated if his guns aren't available i.e. if they are locked up or removed from the house.

I suggested that removing firing pins might be possible , thus giving him the cuddly feelings of having his guns around yet make them non-lethal. (except as clubs)
Any idea if this is a big deal for a gunsmith?
Several shotguns and assorted pistols.

 

[snowbear]

I really can't say for most, but I replaced a broken firing pin in an old Mossberg shotgun. As I recall, it was pretty easy getting the old one out. I know dad's old .38 revolver used a semi-floating tip on the hammer.

 

[tirediron]

Generally speaking it's fairly simple to render a weapon ineffective but still retain the appearance of functionality. Depending on the style and make it may simply involve the removal of the firing pin, or perhaps slightly larger components (breach block, etc. In most cases this is easily accomplished at home. That said, it might be safer to actually permanently disable the weapons.

 

[table1349]

I have an acquaintance whose father is in the middle stages of a serious dementia. He threatens attacks on his family and gets very agitated if his guns aren't available i.e. if they are locked up or removed from the house.

I suggested that removing firing pins might be possible , thus giving him the cuddly feelings of having his guns around yet make them non-lethal. (except as clubs)
Any idea if this is a big deal for a gunsmith?
Several shotguns and assorted pistols.

It is simple to do but extremely unwise. After 33+ years in LE this is a very dangerous situation to put dad in. Dementia is considered a mental condition, generally incurable. Making dad happy with disabled firearms could easily get dad seriously hurt or killed. All it takes is for dad in his diminished mental state to cause a disturbance or just walk around outside the house with one of his guns. LEO's get called and dad in his delusional state refuses to obey commands to put the gun down and dad can easily become another statistic. LEO can't tell that the firearm is not functional and there is no way that they are going to know this or that dad had dementia. These are split second decisions that have to be made and leaving a person with mental issues firearms functional or not is a recipe for disaster.

The guns need to be removed from the home permanently or locked up in a gun safe that dad cannot get into. I am going through the whole dementia/Alzheimer's issue now with my 86 year old mother. It is best to not beat around the bush and plainly tell dad that he can no longer have his guns around and why. Not only the family physician but the psychologist and psychologist directly informed my mother of her condition and encourage us to not beat around the bush with her about the situation.

 

[Designer]

The short answer is; yes, firing pins can be removed, but I would not do that.

A non-functioning firearm is extremely dangerous to the person holding it.

The best thing to do is remove the guns from the premises.

 

[The_Traveler]

Those points make a lot of sense.
This is a difficult situation where a large, demented person is being cared for by a much smaller realtive.
His irregular bouts of aggression have made life very difficult and he gets upset when his guns aren't available.
She is looking for a way to placate him.

Thanks again for the intelligent help.

 

[table1349]

Has dad been evaluated for the cause of his dementia. If not he should be. In my mothers case they were able to determine it was not a physically caused dementia, my grandmother had dementia caused by hardening of the arteries, but a treatable form of Alzheimers. While the medicine she is on can not reverse her condition it has given her, her personality back that she had lost and keeps her in a more understandable state.

 

[Advanced Photo]

It could get him killed if there is a forced entry and he grabs a non working gun to defend himself though. Like declawing a cat, it's not always the best idea in the world.

 

[SCraig]

It could get him killed if there is a forced entry and he grabs a non working gun to defend himself though. Like declawing a cat, it's not always the best idea in the world.

It would be an even worse idea to let a demented person have a loaded weapon available.

While I agree with the statements that having a disabled firearm is a plain bad idea for the reasons stated, perhaps just a plain old trigger lock would work. They would effectively disable the firearm as long as he doesn't know where the keys are, They are available in bright colors, or can be painted in bright colors, so that they are easily visible.

Dementia is a terrible thing. My mother had it for several years before she died and it was horrible watching a formerly wonderful person go through it. She got to the point that if she saw something in her house and didn't know what it was she threw it in the trash. This included the charger for her cordless telephone as well as the control panel for the security system (although I have no idea how she got it off the wall).

 

[DarkShadow]

Trigger locks are cheap,I had about 2 dozen of them I could have sent you if I didn't through them out each time I get a new piece. Gun shops are required to put one on each gun before it leaves the store on final sales. First thing I do is remove the trigger lock in the car,load the magazine of a semi or cylinder revolver. I would be worried about accidental discharges keeping ammo around, even the sharpest mind can have a AD and IMO having guns requires being level head at all times and think there become a point in time that if your mid is going from age maybe a good time to sell them off. Some may be worth a small fortune if its a collector.

 

[table1349]

A big man with a gun in hand can easily hide a trigger lock from view. In a split second he could be dead. Folks this isn't some kind of Second Amendment issue, this is purely a mental health issue where the safety of the mentally impaired as well as others are important. The guns need to be gone from the home. Memory care units have locked doors for a reason. In a home, especially in a situation like this with a large mentally impaired man and a smaller female, keeping dad from doing something irrational is not an easy procedure for the trained professionals. In a private home it can be visually impossible for a spouse.

 

[Overread]

I can only second the views that the guns simply need to be removed from the household. Attempts to disable them "might" work in the short term; but several people have pointed out that there are multiple ways in which it not only presents no actual protection; but also can cause an increased level of threat!

In addition whilst his mind might be damaged there are still parts of it there; attempts to disable might well work in short term but if he's any idea about guns he might well notice the change and reverse minor disabling. Thus what you think is a safe gun suddenly is no longer the case. A tiny partly lucid moment and you've a huge problem.

I would advise getting rid of the guns completely. From there you then also need to look at increased levels of support for both your relatives. If he's getting violent and dangerous then that needs to be addressed as best as possible - medication might help but it might also be that he needs a greater level of care than be be safely provided for at home.

Dementia/Alzhiemers are horrific and I would seriously try to get professional help and medical advice.

 

[DarkShadow]

The other maybe issue I see here is removing them from the residence check your state laws. In CT you can't even purchase a hand gun with out a permit So for example I only in my house hold can transport outside the residence because I hold a carry weapons permit.My wife or kids are not allowed to remove any handguns from outside the residence not even to a vehicle period. Only exception is a BB gun in a locked trunk of a vehicle not even in the glove box is allowed.

 

[table1349]

The other maybe issue I see here is removing them from the residence check your state laws. In CT you can't even purchase a hand gun with out a permit So for example I only in my house hold can transport outside the residence because I hold a carry weapons permit.My wife or kids are not allowed to remove any handguns from outside the residence not even to a vehicle period. Only exception is a BB gun in a locked trunk of a vehicle not even in the glove box is allowed.

Not completely correct. These are the exceptions.

A person may transport a handgun in a motor vehicle without a permit if it is unloaded, not readily accessible or directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle or, in a motor vehicle that does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment if the person is:

• Carrying the handgun in the package in which it was originally wrapped at the time of sale and transporting it from the place of sale to the purchaser’s residence or place of business;

• Removing his or her household goods or effects from one place to another;

• Transporting the handgun from his or her place of residence or business to the place where, or individual by whom, it is to be repaired, or while returning to the possessor’s place of residence or business after the handgun has been repaired;

• Transporting the handgun in or through the state for the purpose of competitions, formal training, repair or any meeting or exhibition of an organized collectors’ group if such person is a United States resident and is permitted to possess and carry a handgun in the state or subdivision of the United States in which such person resides;

• Transporting the handgun to and from a testing range at the request of a handgun permit issuing authority; or

• Transporting an antique handgun.

Connecticut also prohibits any person from possessing or carrying in any vehicle or snowmobile any shotgun, rifle or muzzleloader of any gauge or caliber while such long gun contains any loaded shell or cartridge capable of being discharged in the barrel, chamber or magazine or, for a muzzleloader, when such firearm has a percussion cap in place or when the powder pan of a flintlock contains powder.5

 

[Warhorse]

I... those guns do need to be removed/made inaccessible to the man.