Homerland Security

[THORHAMMER]

thought i posted this, but I just mentioned it at the end of a pic post...
Some photo sites have mirrored the incident, but I wanted to put it here to let as many people know about the abuses against our constitution that are going on in the name of security. Everyone needs to know about the possibility of a growing police state and what it means to our rights as photographers.

I too thought it was getting better for a little while, but I guess not. Thomas and I had some problems down there a week ago.


Thomas Hawk's Digital Connection: Long Beach Harbor Patrol Says Photography "Not Allowed" From Public Sidewalk

Thomas Hawk's Digital Connection: Port of Long Beach Responds to Incident of Photographer Harassment




P.S. please don't bring politics into this, but feel free to criticize, praise, or talk about how our government is dealing with our rights and constitution in a peaceful way without putting down groups of people based on beliefs of any kind, if we all agree to that then we wont have any problems !!

Thanks.

 

[TUX424]

Heres and example of what your tax dollars are going towards with protecting from people cross the boarder between USA and Canada...
When i was on a Alaskian Cruise we were entering back into the USA from Canada, when we entered Canada from the USA a boarder offical came onboard of the train and had everyone hold there passport to there face and take off there glasses/hats/etc. and checked every single people one at a time. Then when we were on a bus back to the USA from Canada, we stoped at the boarder potral station and the officer from the window said, "Who you got on the bus?" (Meaning people from different countries how many of each). After the Bus driver answered the question The Officer said ok, he didn't even get or look on the bus and were just drove on in. Then the bus driver said, "There's you tax dollars hard at work".
WE laughed and drove away with our 300 illeagle immagrants in the stoage compartments JK...LOL *The rest is true though NOT JK*

 

[table1349]

thought i posted this, but I just mentioned it at the end of a pic post...
Some photo sites have mirrored the incident, but I wanted to put it here to let as many people know about the abuses against our constitution that are going on in the name of security. Everyone needs to know about the possibility of a growing police state and what it means to our rights as photographers.

I too thought it was getting better for a little while, but I guess not. Thomas and I had some problems down there a week ago.


Thomas Hawk's Digital Connection: Long Beach Harbor Patrol Says Photography "Not Allowed" From Public Sidewalk

Thomas Hawk's Digital Connection: Port of Long Beach Responds to Incident of Photographer Harassment




P.S. please don't bring politics into this, but feel free to criticize, praise, or talk about how our government is dealing with our rights and constitution in a peaceful way without putting down groups of people based on beliefs of any kind, if we all agree to that then we wont have any problems !!

Thanks.

Iss't that pretty much like putting a T-bone steak in front of someone and telling them not to eat one single bite of it, but to enjoy the steak?

 

[THORHAMMER]

Are you saying that your idea of a steak is putting down groups of people based on their beliefs ? Gheesh, if thats the case, please do stay out of the conversation. of course we can disagree, but Im talking about the people who start chanting right vs left and calling the other side names, etc.. theres no place for that here.

Where we stand on security and our constitution should never have to drop into name calling and personal attacks. Unless of course thats your version of a T Bone Steak..There is a fine art of discussing things in an adult manner without turning it political.

 

[THORHAMMER]

Heres and example of what your tax dollars are going towards with protecting from people cross the boarder between USA and Canada...
When i was on a Alaskan Cruise we were entering back into the USA from Canada, when we entered Canada from the USA a boarder offical came on board of the train and had everyone hold there passport to there face and take off there glasses/hats/etc. and checked every single people one at a time. Then when we were on a bus back to the USA from Canada, we stopped at the boarder potral station and the officer from the window said, "Who you got on the bus?" (Meaning people from different countries how many of each). After the Bus driver answered the question The Officer said ok, he didn't even get or look on the bus and were just drove on in. Then the bus driver said, "There's you tax dollars hard at work".
WE laughed and drove away with our 300 illeagle immagrants in the stoage compartments JK...LOL *The rest is true though NOT JK*

I hear things are getting bad in general in Canada inasfar as insecurity.

I understand the usual arguments pro and con, but after seeing it firsthand I can say our constitution is pretty much worthless in these situations. I am repeatedly stopped illegally, harassed and accused of being a terrorist, or on drugs, or whatever they can THINK of to try to upset me.

This is not how a citizen should be treated. And its not only in the Port areas, this happens all over DC, New Mexico, Texas, Boston, etc... stories
come from all over the place. Remember the story of the guy who took pictures of a high speed cop car chase and crash which happened right in front of him, they tried to force him to delete his pics and put him in jail to cover their asses. Thats ridiculous..

My point is if we cannot take pictures of things from public sidewalk without being subject to terroristic accusations, coercion, threats of false arrest, and illegal background checks then the "terrorists" have already won and we should rip our precious constitution in half.

 

[Joves]

Well it doesnt surprise me one bit. It seems many local law enforcement love to use 9/11 as a reason to violate peoples rights. This makes me want to drive to LB and do some night shooting. Let them arrest me because, I could use the money from a violation of civil rights suit.
But what bothers me is that they may eventually pass laws that forbid the shooting in public. I even heard some nut complain about photographers in public on C-Span one morning. What the government is doing is manufacturing fear and, making the sheeple paranoid. This fits their agenda just fine as it allows them to rid us of that pesky Constitution and, our guaranteed rights. Anyone who believes that government is looking out for our best intrests needs to go see a therapist.
On a better note as, of 1/1/09 you can carry sidearms into National Parks now. Woohoo!

 

[table1349]

Are you saying that your idea of a steak is putting down groups of people based on their beliefs ? Gheesh, if thats the case, please do stay out of the conversation. of course we can disagree, but Im talking about the people who start chanting right vs left and calling the other side names, etc.. theres no place for that here.

Where we stand on security and our constitution should never have to drop into name calling and personal attacks. Unless of course thats your version of a T Bone Steak..There is a fine art of discussing things in an adult manner without turning it political.

My My My we are a bit touchy aren't we. Especially since you can not point to anything in my post that has anything to do with putting down groups based on their beliefs. Nor does my post have anything to do with the left, right or somewhere in between or outside. Please point to one personal attack that is in my post. I thought not for there are none.

When indifiduals discuss government, they are discussing politics. When they discuss the constitution that this Republic was founded upon, they are discussing politics. Politics is not just the differing of views between different factions, is also the policies and implementation of those policies.

P.S. please don't bring politics into this, but feel free to criticize, praise, or talk about how our government is dealing with our rights and constitution in a peaceful way without putting down groups of people based on beliefs of any kind, if we all agree to that then we wont have any problems !!

So when you discuss how a government is dealing with the rights of others and the constitution, that is politics for you are discussing government policy and it's guidance or desired guidance by those that wish to discuss it.

 

[THORHAMMER]

You just saw the word politics and didn't bother to read the rest of my post before making your reply.

Maybe I should use a different word then politics , but I clearly detailed what I meant in the paragraph below the word.

I also think adults should be able to talk like adults, you've allready called me touchy because I didn't agree with your line of thinking , it'll be interesting to see what else you call me...

If you have nothing to add to the conversation about govt and security please don't troll for reactions. I'm sure the mods can back me up here, should be able to discuss something newsworthy without trolling or namecalling..

 

[table1349]

You just saw the word politics and didn't bother to read the rest of my post before making your reply.

Maybe I should use a different word then politics , but I clearly detailed what I meant in the paragraph below the word.

I also think adults should be able to talk like adults, you've allready called me touchy because I didn't agree with your line of thinking , it'll be interesting to see what else you call me...

If you have nothing to add to the conversation about govt and security please don't troll for reactions. I'm sure the mods can back me up here, should be able to discuss something newsworthy without trolling or namecalling..

Well lets see if we can break this down.

thought i posted this, but I just mentioned it at the end of a pic post...
Some photo sites have mirrored the incident, but I wanted to put it here to let as many people know about the abuses against our constitution that are going on in the name of security. Everyone needs to know about the possibility of a growing police state and what it means to our rights as photographers. ;-)

This does not sound to me like and FYI about an incident that happened but rather a rather political opinion that is being stated about abuses to the constitution and the "Police State" that you believe may grow.

I too thought it was getting better for a little while, but I guess not. Thomas and I had some problems down there a week ago.


Thomas Hawk's Digital Connection: Long Beach Harbor Patrol Says Photography "Not Allowed" From Public Sidewalk

Thomas Hawk's Digital Connection: Port of Long Beach Responds to Incident of Photographer Harassment




P.S. please don't bring politics into this, but feel free to criticize, praise, or talk about how our government is dealing with our rights and constitution in a peaceful way without putting down groups of people based on beliefs of any kind, if we all agree to that then we wont have any problems !!

And then you encourage a discussion about constitutional rights while telling people not to exercise their constitutional right to free speech. Where does one right end and another begin.

It may come as a surprise to you but I actually found some merit in Thomas Hawk's posts and what occurred.

However the tone of the last paragraph of the thread starter made me feel like I was down at the Port of Long Beach and I was just stopped for taking photographs when combined with the nature of the opinion that was stated in the first paragraph.

In a free an open society people can freely discuss issues and ideas with the understanding that they can discuss and dare I say it disagree amicably with out calling one something like a troll. I just find it ironic that there is a post about abuses to one form of freedom that wants to limit another form of freedom in the discussion thereby limiting any real form of discussion.

FYI. I will state right up front that what is about to follow is a biased and even political statement, but I feel that from what I have read about this incident, the Harbor Patrol exceeded their legal authority that was vested to them by the government.

 

[THORHAMMER]

1 there is a difference between disagreeing and putting down someone


2 Constitutional rights to free speech do not mean you can go against the wishes of the forum mods, I was simply re-iterating what they have warned us all about numerous times on the past

I simply don't want to see the thread shutdown.

3 your initial comments have nothing to do with the incident, but seem designed to provoke an argumentative reaction going against the forum wishes to stray away from that kind of political arguments. Pretty much a definition of trolling, Sorry if I seems harsh, I just call it like I see it.

 

[Joves]

Now now lets all play nice. Now kiss and make up.

 

[THORHAMMER]

FYI. I will state right up front that what is about to follow is a biased and even political statement, but I feel that from what I have read about this incident, the Harbor Patrol exceeded their legal authority that was vested to them by the government.

I don't see that as political at all, just your opinion of current events
Maybe my definition of political is skewed meaning political bickering, just trying to follow forum guidelines that's all

 

[Arch]

Ok enough of the arguing please... just try and discuss the topic at hand.

 

[usayit]

Yes.. It sucks and somehow it has become acceptable to trample over civil liberties. Just remember that "right and wrong" are not decided on the streets. That is reserved for the court. The street cop can (and will) make it very unpleasant if you step over a very fine line; doesn't matter who is right or wrong. Such events need to be reported... you are perfectly in your right to request name and badge number.

Anything else other than an agreement would be dangerously political. A TPF search will yield similar heated threads.

 

[usayit]

Let them arrest me because, I could use the money from a violation of civil rights suit.

Please do and let me know..... it is more difficult than you think. At the most, you'll get disorderly conduct, court will dismiss, and you'll have a bunch of time wasted.