if 90 percent of people don't like what you shoot or the way you shoot

[bribrius]

I'm a bit late to this thread and have only read up to page 2, but I'm just going to chime in here and say that I actually would care if 90% of people didn't like my photos. I'd care a lot. In fact, I'd be mortified.

I could pretend that I just shoot for myself, or that everyone else misunderstands my art, or that they're simply uneducated, but the reality is that I have chosen an expressive art form and if no one else likes it, it's kind of missing the point.

I'm not talking about personal taste. One person's sports photo is another person's fantasy composite or one person's portrait is another person's macro, but if 90% of people do not like my photo then there is something wrong with it. Whether that be compositionally, technically or the subject matter itself, something needs to be addressed.

I love getting compliments about my work and would probably give up if 90% of people said they didn't like my shots through sheer self loathing!

'Like' seems to be an incomplete term for this.
When viewing pictures of bunnies and hillsides and sunsets, within certain bounds, viewers are pretty catholic in their tastes but I like to shoot in a niche both that most/many people don't care for and about which people seem to have have definite likes/dislikes stylistically. It is non-digested art, or attempts to be, usually requiring something from the viewer and, because of that, is often not accepted.
So a 'like' reaction might be that people understand and see what I see, that people understand what I am trying to 'say', that people appreciate it for what it is but only 'like' it in a way that doesn't connote getting pleasure from it.
Or, people might not get what I am saying, either because of their short vision or mine, or I haven't succeeded at capturing and showing what I want to or they might not like what I am saying or they might just not want to work at understanding something.
So when someone dislikes, that doesn't give me much information.
Could be me, could be them.

I prefer to think it is always them.

I agree with you both and completely understand where you are coming from. The one thing I have to say is that the 90% figure is fairly ambiguous as well.

90% of what? the entire earth? That's a lot of people. If I could get 10% of the world population to like my work enough to buy it for $10 a print I'd be rich and validated beyond my wildest dreams.

So that brings up the topic.. We really aren't talking about people in general here are we? We're talking about the intended audience. Everyone has an intended audience and it usually isn't the entire world population, it's a certain group or type of people that the work is geared towards and therefore that group of people are the only people who's opinions you should really care about.

If 90% of the world hated my work but 75% of my intended audience thought it was the best work they'd ever seen, as an artist I'd be very satisfied.

I took it to mean 90% of the people who view my photos.

i dunno. Seems i am missing a diffuser around here somewhere. (i keep losing chit)....


anyway...

After much deliberation, thinking of the time and money i have invested in photography (and there are many, many, many here with much more time and money invested than I) i have come to this profound conclusion....


Unless they are writing you a check (that clears) or handing you cash enough to make your concern for their thoughts worth while. Unless they are flipping the bill. Then does it really matter what they think?????? Talk is cheap. someone can like or hate my stuff all day long. Unless it pertains to at least enough cash to get your attention then who really does care what they think???

Isn't that the reality of it? The vast majority of us will never become great artists. Commercial photography comes down to who pays the bills. Much more cut and dry. For the art side, well... unless they can fork out some cash to give you the basis of concern the commercial photographer has, then what is the concern with even worrying about it?


kind of like
"i hate your work"
"were you going to pay me a thousand dollars?"
"no!. why would you even ask that?"
"To decide if it mattered that you hate my work."

The commercial photographers have it made in this. Real simple then, you get paid for shooting the product/event/portraits or you don't. Cuts right to the chase. The art side... well.... Even if people like your photo it doesn't mean they will pay the money for a print. How many people actually buy photos?

It has nothing to do with money and whether people will pay for my photos, it has to do with artistic development.

I want to take photos that initiate a positive reaction in other people (a positive reaction could be anything from "Cool photo!" to "You've shown really good direction with your model and paid great attention to hair and makeup" or "How did you do that?!"). I want to host an exhibition of work and for people to come to it and to see people liking my photos.

If I take a photo; I come up with an idea, plan it, shoot it and then edit it only to store it away on a harddrive somewhere so that I can occasionally look at it and say to myself "Good job, Ian", that, to me, is pointless.

Where's the reward? Where's the confirmation that what you're doing has meaning or merit? How can anyone hope to develop their artistic ability without knowing what other people think of their artwork?

Can't help you there. You are finding your happiness or whatever it is through others.
i find the reward in looking back on my photos. Remember standing there, who might have been there with me, what i was looking at. I find it in my own photos. I look through them as part of me and part of my life and what i was doing or seeing at the time. Some i just like, because i have it how i wanted to make it. So i look at it and like it. Other people are a third party to the equation. They have their own visions, their own history, their own moments in time. The primary is myself and my photography. I guess for the most part, that is all i need. Some tech info or certain critique is helpful as that helps you accomplish what you want. It really isn't a like or dislike thing though. More of getting the tools to accomplish what you want. Same when i painted. It was really between me and the paints. I paint a boat i like i was pretty content. Didn't really need any accolades.

It really sounds like a lot of you are getting your happiness, validation, whatever from others. I honestly can't really relate to that. I appreciate if someone does like something i do. But it really doesn't factor into the equation at all for me. I look through my photos and it really just has nothing to do with them.

 

[sashbar]

If 90 % do not like your work and you do not care , you are either a genius or a fool.

 

[bribrius]

If 90 % do not like your work and you do not care , you are either a genius or a fool.

Or you have a high enough self esteem it doesn't concern you to much and you grew up in life in general. Some of us grow up and become secure adults. Really. And we ask adult questions if we don't know something. We don't run around looking for approval, that is generally what children do. A artist needing approval. I don't even know what to make of that. Seems either they would follow their art or follow what everyone else likes. Seems it would be one or the other. While the both may meet or mesh in circumstances. And people may like your work. Concentrating on getting it likes i would think would be a deviant from your art itself. If you are primarily making it for others approval. Then really it is THEIR art. Seems kind of messed up if you ask me. As concentrating on getting it liked would poison your own artistic tendency.
something to think about. To each their own. Don't really know.

 

[Buckster]

If 90 % do not like your work and you do not care , you are either a genius or a fool.

Or you have a high enough self esteem it doesn't concern you to much and you grew up in life in general. Some of us grow up and become secure adults. Really. And we ask adult questions if we don't know something. We don't run around looking for approval, that is generally what children do. A artist needing approval. I don't even know what to make of that. Seems either they would follow their art or follow what everyone else likes. Seems it would be one or the other. While the both may meet or mesh in circumstances. And people may like your work. Concentrating on getting it likes i would think would be a deviant from your art itself. If you are primarily making it for others approval. Then really it is THEIR art. Seems kind of messed up if you ask me. As concentrating on getting it liked would poison your own artistic tendency.
something to think about. To each their own. Don't really know.

Then why did you even ask the question that started this thread in the first place? Why bother to ask if you don't care anyway?

 

[bribrius]

If 90 % do not like your work and you do not care , you are either a genius or a fool.

Or you have a high enough self esteem it doesn't concern you to much and you grew up in life in general. Some of us grow up and become secure adults. Really. And we ask adult questions if we don't know something. We don't run around looking for approval, that is generally what children do. A artist needing approval. I don't even know what to make of that. Seems either they would follow their art or follow what everyone else likes. Seems it would be one or the other. While the both may meet or mesh in circumstances. And people may like your work. Concentrating on getting it likes i would think would be a deviant from your art itself. If you are primarily making it for others approval. Then really it is THEIR art. Seems kind of messed up if you ask me. As concentrating on getting it liked would poison your own artistic tendency.
something to think about. To each their own. Don't really know.

Then why did you even ask the question that started this thread in the first place? Why bother to ask if you don't care anyway?

Makes for a interesting discussion doesn't it? People see things different. Each with their own view. Everyone throws their hat in the ring. In the end maybe we all learn something, about something. Or at least have something to think on.

 

[Buckster]

If 90 % do not like your work and you do not care , you are either a genius or a fool.

Or you have a high enough self esteem it doesn't concern you to much and you grew up in life in general. Some of us grow up and become secure adults. Really. And we ask adult questions if we don't know something. We don't run around looking for approval, that is generally what children do. A artist needing approval. I don't even know what to make of that. Seems either they would follow their art or follow what everyone else likes. Seems it would be one or the other. While the both may meet or mesh in circumstances. And people may like your work. Concentrating on getting it likes i would think would be a deviant from your art itself. If you are primarily making it for others approval. Then really it is THEIR art. Seems kind of messed up if you ask me. As concentrating on getting it liked would poison your own artistic tendency.
something to think about. To each their own. Don't really know.

Then why did you even ask the question that started this thread in the first place? Why bother to ask if you don't care anyway?

Makes for a interesting discussion doesn't it? People see things different. Each with their own view. Everyone throws their hat in the ring. In the end maybe we all learn something, about something. Or at least have something to think on.

And what have you learned from it?

 

[bribrius]

If 90 % do not like your work and you do not care , you are either a genius or a fool.

Or you have a high enough self esteem it doesn't concern you to much and you grew up in life in general. Some of us grow up and become secure adults. Really. And we ask adult questions if we don't know something. We don't run around looking for approval, that is generally what children do. A artist needing approval. I don't even know what to make of that. Seems either they would follow their art or follow what everyone else likes. Seems it would be one or the other. While the both may meet or mesh in circumstances. And people may like your work. Concentrating on getting it likes i would think would be a deviant from your art itself. If you are primarily making it for others approval. Then really it is THEIR art. Seems kind of messed up if you ask me. As concentrating on getting it liked would poison your own artistic tendency.
something to think about. To each their own. Don't really know.

Then why did you even ask the question that started this thread in the first place? Why bother to ask if you don't care anyway?

Makes for a interesting discussion doesn't it? People see things different. Each with their own view. Everyone throws their hat in the ring. In the end maybe we all learn something, about something. Or at least have something to think on.

And what have you learned from it?

still thinking....so far it has helped me understand others better who might have different concerns and reasons for their photography.

 

[W.Y.Photo]

If 90 % do not like your work and you do not care , you are either a genius or a fool.

Or you have a high enough self esteem it doesn't concern you to much and you grew up in life in general. Some of us grow up and become secure adults. Really. And we ask adult questions if we don't know something. We don't run around looking for approval, that is generally what children do. A artist needing approval. I don't even know what to make of that. Seems either they would follow their art or follow what everyone else likes. Seems it would be one or the other. While the both may meet or mesh in circumstances. And people may like your work. Concentrating on getting it likes i would think would be a deviant from your art itself. If you are primarily making it for others approval. Then really it is THEIR art. Seems kind of messed up if you ask me. As concentrating on getting it liked would poison your own artistic tendency.
something to think about. To each their own. Don't really know.

I don't think the statement in bold is right. It's more like they fall on a spectrum that goes from caring too much on the left to not caring enough on the right.. Maybe those aren't the right ways to put it..
Maybe: "Concern for the opinion of others to the point that all work produced is exactly as the artist believes is agreeable the masses" on one side of the spectrum and "Lack of concern for the opinion of others to the point that the artist habitually disregards all opinions on his art and art in general besides his own" on the other. I think that both of these mentality's are a bit extreme but that there are artists who fit neatly into those extremes. I believe that a majority fall somewhere in the middle though.. Making work for themselves but regarding the opinions of others as a way to not only improve their work but also to make it portray there message to others in a cohesive manner.

 

[The_Traveler]

I don't think the statement in bold is right. It's more like they fall on a spectrum that goes from caring too much on the left to not caring enough on the right.. Maybe those aren't the right ways to put it..
Maybe: "Concern for the opinion of others to the point that all work produced is exactly as the artist believes is agreeable the masses" on one side of the spectrum and "Lack of concern for the opinion of others to the point that the artist habitually disregards all opinions on his art and art in general besides his own" on the other. I think that both of these mentality's are a bit extreme but that there are artists who fit neatly into those extremes. I believe that a majority fall somewhere in the middle though.. Making work for themselves but regarding the opinions of others as a way to not only improve their work but also to make it portray there message to others in a cohesive manner.

I pretty much agree except that I think that the spectrum runs from "Concern for the opinion of others to the point that all work produced is exactly as the artist believes is agreeable the masses" to "Rejection of the opinion of others to the point that the artist purposefully produces work that no others will like and sees such work as proof that he/she is an original artist."

I think this sentence is pretty much right on the button "I believe that a majority fall somewhere in the middle though; making work for themselves but regarding the opinions of others as a way to not only improve their work but also to make it portray there message to others in a coherent (ed) manner."

 

[Buckster]

The last couple of posts bring to mind something I've been thinking as I read through the posts in this thread, and it's that a few post in a way that makes it seem like they think it has to be one or the other; Either you're a total sellout to the masses, or you shun them entirely to pursue your own vision, and I don't think that's true at all.

I've known a lot of artists in my time, and been known to produce a bit of art myself, and it's been my experience that many do both. They produce what the masses want, especially if they pay their bills by producing art, and it needs to sell, but also for other reasons that are more personal to them, if only to feed their own egos with acceptance. But then they also pursue their own vision, often knowing that it won't be very salable to the masses or produce real income.

I don't personally see anything wrong with it.

 

[runnah]

The last couple of posts bring to mind something I've been thinking as I read through the posts in this thread, and it's that a few post in a way that makes it seem like they think it has to be one or the other; Either you're a total sellout to the masses, or you shun them entirely to pursue your own vision, and I don't think that's true at all.

I've known a lot of artists in my time, and been known to produce a bit of art myself, and it's been my experience that many do both. They produce what the masses want, especially if they pay their bills by producing art, and it needs to sell, but also for other reasons that are more personal to them, if only to feed their own egos with acceptance. But then they also pursue their own vision, often knowing that it won't be very salable to the masses or produce real income.

I don't personally see anything wrong with it.

Reminds me of some of the actor interviews I've heard. Some actors have the "one for them, one for me mentality", meaning they do one "hollywood" film so they can fund a personal film.

People forget that this is a business and businesses need to make money to survive.

 

[Designer]

Makes for a interesting discussion doesn't it?

No, it is simply frustrating. Most artists that I've ever heard of are driven to make art from something within themselves. They realize that by selling art for money allows them the freedom to keep on making art. They can only sell art that is desirable, and if that generates an unsavory taste in your mouth, so be it.

 

[Forkie]

If 90 % do not like your work and you do not care , you are either a genius or a fool.

Or you have a high enough self esteem it doesn't concern you to much and you grew up in life in general. Some of us grow up and become secure adults. Really. And we ask adult questions if we don't know something. We don't run around looking for approval, that is generally what children do. A artist needing approval. I don't even know what to make of that. Seems either they would follow their art or follow what everyone else likes. Seems it would be one or the other. While the both may meet or mesh in circumstances. And people may like your work. Concentrating on getting it likes i would think would be a deviant from your art itself. If you are primarily making it for others approval. Then really it is THEIR art. Seems kind of messed up if you ask me. As concentrating on getting it liked would poison your own artistic tendency.
something to think about. To each their own. Don't really know.

I disagree about someone seeking approval from their peers means they are lacking in self esteem. It takes guts to put your work out there for display and criticism and I would put it to you that it is not, in fact, the praise that they don't need, but the criticism that they don't want to hear that is the reason for someone keeping their work to themselves.

You talk about "we" as if you and a select few are "grown-up" or "adult" enough to be happy to keep your photos to yourself and to hell with what anyone else thinks, whilst I and mine haven't yet caught up and are still seeking a big red tick from the teacher.

Photography is an expressive art form. If you want to express something, be it an emotion, an opinion, or an idea, expressing it to a brick wall is not really expressing it at all. Having a body of work that you can show off, put on display or (less importantly) sell is where my joy comes from.

Being approached by someone to shoot a photo for them, or better still of them, is the best compliment I can get. And yes, compliments, praise and thanks are what drives me to get better and produce better photos.

 

[sleist]

I have placed varying degrees of importance on the opinions of others at different times in my photography (and just about everything else for that matter). I think there are times when it's valuable to the learning process. There are also times when it's nice to hear but largely irrelevant. Sometimes when 90% of the people "like" your work it's just as ominous.

This thread made me think of this old blog post. Might not be exactly the same thing, but I remember enjoying it when I read it.

This is Why Your Pictures Suck

 

[astroNikon]

Sounds like you have 100% acceptance from people.
you just have to only show you work to those 10% of people

but then everyone is different. They themselves see different things from a photograph. This of all the "snapshots" vs trying to be artistic.

As long as you enjoy it and are learning from photography.