Just a quick message for the beginners (and pros as well)

[Brutus]

Hm, well, it seems that around here, even if you get just a few responses, they are GENERALLY pretty good at telling you some minor things to change, at least on certain photos. And if someone says a photo "doesn't do anything for them," that CAN give you some good advice. If it doesn't do anything for them, that means it's sort of boring, which usually implies you needing to recompose the shot, lighting, etc. or to find something else that's a bit more interesting.

 

[manaheim]

Sometimes "Doesn't really do much for me" is someone's nice way of saying ... um ... something far less nice.

There certainly is some arrogance on here from folks, but most of the time the critque is genuine and constructive... and even the best people on this forum have an occasional bad moment or bad day. Everyone's human.

Sometimes you will get an "RTFM" from folks, and usually when I see it I'm not too surprised. Some of the folks on this board (me included) kind of expect people will take some of their own time to at least try to read up on the basics, and then post a question if you need clarification. (which I would assume most people would... the stuff is really confusing... "You mean the smaller number is the BIGGER hole and that means LESS in focus? Are you people on CRACK?!")

A lot of us spend a lot of time on here answering pretty basic questions and are very happy to do it, but sometimes it's just too much to try to spoon-feed the very most basic information to someone who hasn't even tried to get a handle on the basics first.

 

[anubis404]

"don't let the bastards grind you down" is what google told me... guess it was coined in WW2

Illegitimi non carborundum is a mock-Latin aphorism jokingly taken to mean "don't let the bastards grind you down"

Yea, read that one in a book. The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood, I believe? I think it was:

nolite te bastardes carborundum

 

[Joves]

I come in this section and skim really quick. Im one of the jerks but, I do post on equipment questions that I can answer. There are so many CC questions that my whole night would be consumed by them. Also I dont click links to look at pics either. To any noobs who dont know to post a picture in the forum it is

this will put it in the forum. Or use the insert image box above the posting dialog box.

 

[terror.hawk]

If the C&C posts bother you look in the professionals forum.

:thumbup:

 

[NateWagner]

I haven't really been here long, but I have been trying to comment on threads relatively frequently (particularly people type threads) and I will say that although I want to help the others here in any way I can, the shots are so out of focus, so blurry, so poorly composed that I skip by the shots often and just don't bother to give critique.

As was said earlier, people can usually tell if their photos are blurry and underexposed, they may know they have blown highlights, that the shadows are distracting etc. Thus, as I was reading through this thread I kept thinking how much I liked the response given in one of the linked threads where the person critiquing merely said "do you like these photos?"

The response was basically, no, it's too dark, etc. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that maybe how we are offering this C&C is an enabling behavior in which we are letting newer people take take and not necessarily learn, whereas if we were to take a more Socratic method we could encourage the new photographer to learn through critically looking at their own pictures. This is after all the frustrating part, critiquing photos that the person taking them should be able to clearly tell are poor.

 

[danjchau]

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[tirediron]

After lurking around here for the last couple years or so as a guest, Finally taken the plunge and registered a nick

I to have noticed some of the comments on here for eg:

#1 Doesn't really do much for me

What sort of dumb answer is that????

for a new photographer to receive a answer like that is complete worthless in helping where they have gone wrong. If your going to answer like that then don't answer it at all. That tells the photographer absolutely nothing to help get experience ( after all we were all newbs once )

Hmmm... could this be me we're talking about? When I post a phrase like this, take it literally. It means: The picture doesn't excite or interest me, I can't find a subject, and/or there's nothing to comment on (Essentially exactly what Reg said a few posts back - Arrghh.... I agreed with Reg; is the earth going to stop rotating? ). I could type all of that each time I see an image that 'doesn't do it for me' or I could simply post nothing, however I choose to post something fairly simple and direct to indicate to the poster that I have looked at the image.

If this was comment I posted on one of your images and you didn't understand it, or didn't like it, why not PM me and ask? I'm on the board on a fairly regular basis... I'll get back to you.

 

[KD5NRH]

Doesn't really do much for me means just that. It doesn't invoke some sort of emotional or psychological response.
Bland.
Boring.
Possibly trite.

That's why I consider it as valid a comment as any other; maybe you can't put your finger on why, but the shot just doesn't work for you. It's how I feel about Adams' Half-Dome; I can't tell you what's so different about Half-Dome and El Capitan that makes one just look like something from a textbook while the other really draws me in, but that's just how I see it.

I don't care whether a person giving a comment has a lot of experience or not; someone looking to buy a photo isn't likely to have a heck of a lot of experience either. Claiming that one needs some special skills to critique photos is like saying that only professional food tasters are qualified to judge restaurants; unless the target market is comprised only of professional tasters, the opinion of an average potential customer is at least equally valuable.

Addendum: Nothing really important; I just felt that this post should contain at least one sentence without a semicolon. Unfortunately, it took me two sentences to do that.

 

[shed301]

wow stirred up a hornets nest with that one little line havn't i?. . the point i was trying to make was.... the newbie comes into the forum ok.. doesn't understand the workings on the forum ok?. thinks his/her pic is pretty darn cool.. post's it up and thinks he/she will get top marks.... gets * Doesn't do anything for me*... gosh disheartened. thats the point i was trying to make. i can understand your guys point clearly.... but we got to remember these guys are newbs and probably new to forums

Tirediron..... nope that wasn't aimed at you... but to be honest i did steal the second answer from one of your reply's ( the use of a nd filter or polarising filter to make pics pop etc)

I had this happen to me on a forum a few years back and for that reason i don't post much up on forums anymore as i take my pictures to a craft market on saturdays and let the public decide if it's a good pic or not. if the public don't like it then you can pretty much tell yourself it sucks

 

[reg]

wow stirred up a hornets nest with that one little line havn't i?. . the point i was trying to make was.... the newbie comes into the forum ok.. doesn't understand the workings on the forum ok?. thinks his/her pic is pretty darn cool.. post's it up and thinks he/she will get top marks.... gets * Doesn't do anything for me*... gosh disheartened. thats the point i was trying to make. i can understand your guys point clearly.... but we got to remember these guys are newbs and probably new to forums

"Stirred up a hornet's nest"? I'm sorry, I thought this was an open forum. I felt I answered the question quite well since you called "nothing for me" such a crap answer.

If a simple critique disheartens someone, they shouldn't post their photos on the internet. It's not like "Doesn't do anything for me" is the same as "Your photos suck, learn what a freakin' horizontal horizon is you dumb***".

They're new, so don't they deserve HONESTY anyway? They're the ones that need it most. And I've been on forums for years before this one, so I don't know where the "new to forums" comment comes from.

 

[Raze]

haha these threads get so intense!! I love it!

I consider myself a noob and I often look through threads that ask for C&C... if I really like it, I say so, if I know what can be done (and it hasn't already been said) then I'll say so.

I have learned quite a bit from posting my shots and hearing what people have to say (tirediron being one of the most helpful btw) In the beginning, you can't separate yourself from your work and look at it objectively being able to say what you see wrong, because you have no idea what you're looking for! As time goes on, and people have been honest and helpful, you will be able to see exactly what is wrong... I think that is the point you stop being considered a noob. Having said all that, I don't think it's necessary to have hundreds of similar comments and advice on one or two photographs, one helpful person will do... and if all you're looking for is compliments and an ego boost, show your mom.

Here Here!

I'm new to photography (have no idea on most of the terms etc), but I love art. I know what I like, I just don't know WHY I like it (sometimes). I think thats where C&C comes in, eg: an ordinary photo with great colour; the colour is really apealling and could mean you just need to work on the composition a bit, maybe its just the ROT's a bit off and just needs cropping to become something exceptional.
This is something a newbie like me wouldn't be able to see without someone pointing it out and really doesn't have anything to do with the technical side that you'd find in a manual.
If you don't know what your doing wrong, how can you improve?

If you don't want to C&C then don't, but I thank the generous people who take the time to do so.:hail:

 

[juane414]

I'm new here and have only posted a few groups of pictures but so far I've noticed that most comments have seemed pretty negative. I've gotten comments similar to "why even post that?" or "there's nothing special about that". Now, that's all fine and dandy considering I've only had my camera for a week and I'm a noob. However, I wish that I would have received some more suggestions about possible techniques to try or settings to use. I really only saw one comment that was positive and encouraging. I'm fairly confident in my technical abilities and I'm very persistent so I'm not bothered, but someone who doesn't have great self-esteem could be very hurt by harsh critique. I wish this community was a little more supportive I guess, but I'm brand new hear so maybe I just haven't seen the positive sides yet. Thats my two cents.

 

[crashcart]

I appreciate all of the people (esp. tirediron) who have taken time to C&C photos that I post. I am genuinely looking for honest opinions so I can get better at what I do. When I was in college, I gave music lessons on the bass, guitar and piano. When my students had questions and asked opinions of the songs they wrote, I would listen and give them an honest critique.

If they genuinely wanted help, I would give it to them and not make them feel that they shouldn't "waste my time" when they should realize that one should probably use the Locrian Mode over that A7b5 chord. And if you didn't know that...you should have read your theory books! Plebian!

I don't come here looking to have smoke blown up my arse. I'm trying to get better and I'm asking for help. Not all of us are born experts, and although it may come very naturally to some, some of us have to work and be taught to be better.

Not every self-taught guitarist can be Jimi Hendrix. Most just end up playing three-chord crap in dump coffee houses. That's why I taught music - so maybe I could help someone get higher than they could have on their own.

My $.02, do what you will with it.

 

[invisible]

Wow, what a thread!

Something that I learned by personal experience when I was a kid is that you could achieve excellent spelling, grammar and syntax by just reading well-written books. The more you read, the better you get, no matter how much you hate language classes at school. My first language is Spanish, so when I decided that I wanted to learn English I basically applied the same formula: read, read, read. By reading, you're exposed to a language in its purest form. Learning a language (your own or otherwise) using a text book is much more boring anyway.

My approach to photography has been the same, at least so far. Even after receiving some formal (basic) training, the best way for me to learn has been by just looking at photos, and more photos every day. The first thing you learn this way is composition (what works, what doesn't, some conventional rules, etc.); then aperture and shutter speed, proper exposure, and so on. This is, in my opinion, the strength of forums like TPF, and not necessarily the feedback that your images may or may not receive when you post them.

So my humble recommendation (especially to the very beginners) is: don't expect the knowledge to be given to you –keep in mind that the person critiquing our photos might be even more clueless than we are. Instead, go for it! "Absorb" as many photos as you can, and of course shoot a lot. In a matter of just a few weeks you'll notice that your eye is able to distinguish between good and bad images, an acquired "gift" that you'll find yourself applying to your own work in no time. Doing research or reading a text book or two won't hurt either. The rest will come.

That being said (rant alert!), I think there are quite a few arrogant jerks on this forum (just like everywhere else) who feel that they put themselves in a higher place when they dismantle other people's photos. As noted, a blunt "that doesn't do anything for me" or "it's an OK photo but I've seen it many times" can be very disheartening, no matter your level of knowledge. The truth is, those arrogant comments say more about the "expert" than about the photos. (The most striking thing about these jerks is that they rarely post any images themselves.)

Sorry for the long post. I got carried away and I'm not even sure if I said anything of substance.