Some Thoughts and Warnings for Beginners...

[amolitor]

There are no oil painting prodigies. It's just too difficult a form to master. There are no prodigies of sculpture. There ARE prodigies of the piano. They're not the world's greatest pianist at age 10, but they're awfully good.

This has to do with the mechanics of the art, leaning to press a piano key expressively is, ultimately, not very hard. All that is required after that is the ability to press a lot of them in a more or less predetermined sequence, with suitable expression at each turn. This can be taught, and to a surprising degree can be simply intuited. The prodigies, in general, have had a shocking amount of formal training by age 10, but nonetheless, the 10 year old can play.

The lowest-level mechanic of oil painting, the smudging of a single blob of paint onto a piece of canvas in an expressive way, appears to simply be harder, or to require a higher degree of cognitive or motor development. Carving marble, of course, requires motor skills that no 10 year old possesses. There are surely ten year olds with the higher level innate talent to visualize, to imagine what they WOULD paint, but for whatever reason they cannot manage the physical act.

What about photography? The lowest level mechanic is 'press this button'. The ability to press a button, plus the ability to "see" for a very particular meaning of that verb, is really all that is necessary for photography as art. Commercial is another kettle of fish entirely, of course.

Photography resembles baking pastries in no interesting way whatsoever. Cooking at a high level requires a wide range of skills, large and small, from knowing how to crack eggs, to stir, all the way to knowing what is going to happen when you add these three ingredients together. Cooking requires you to be able to "visualize" flavors and how they will interact, and you still need to experiment.

Photography requires the ability to "see" (which, if teachable at all, is certainly much more innate to some people than others) and the ability to push a button.

Francesca Woodman comes to mind. I don't much care for her work, but you can't really ignore it.

 

[subscuck]

Photography resembles baking pastries in no interesting way whatsoever. Cooking at a high level requires a wide range of skills, large and small, from knowing how to crack eggs, to stir, all the way to knowing what is going to happen when you add these three ingredients together. Cooking requires you to be able to "visualize" flavors and how they will interact, and you still need to experiment.

OK, and that's different from photography how?

 

[amolitor]

Photography resembles baking pastries in no interesting way whatsoever. Cooking at a high level requires a wide range of skills, large and small, from knowing how to crack eggs, to stir, all the way to knowing what is going to happen when you add these three ingredients together. Cooking requires you to be able to "visualize" flavors and how they will interact, and you still need to experiment.

OK, and that's different from photography how?

Well, for one thing, we hardly ever use eggs in photography these days.

 

[unpopular]

^^ i see what you did there.

 

[subscuck]

Well, for one thing, we hardly ever use eggs in photography these days.

Eggsactly why photography has gotten boring.

Seriously though. My point was about the artistic process. All art has the same goal, whether it's culinary, visual, or music. Understanding how conventions achieve that goal is a must whether you strictly adhere to convention or wish to break away from convention. Just saying "I like it and I meant to do it that way" doesn't achieve the goal. Unless you just happened to get lucky.

 

[amolitor]

And my point, just to simplify it down to a comprehensible nugget is this:

Some art can be produced by relatively untrained geniuses. Some art cannot. Photography is of the first sort, baking is not.

 

[unpopular]

20ml, 30% hexavalent chrome in water
2 egg whites

It's like a recipe for carcinogenic meringue!

 

[KenC]

20ml, 30% hexavalent chrome in water
2 egg whites

It's like a recipe for carcinogenic meringue!

Don't forget to lick your brushes the way painters used to when they were using this stuff, or pigments made from copper, arsenic, cadmium, etc.

 

[unpopular]

lol. when I was in college, I never used gloves. I figured if 10% potassium metabisulfate could clear chromium from my prints, it would work equally as well on my hands.

Problem solved!

By the way. I was too busy throwing brushes around the darkroom. I was terminally afflicted by registration problems. The worst part is that I had pins, but i never bought a hole punch to use them.

 

[12sndsgood]

to do something out of the box and make something creative with knowledge i would consider that person skilled

to do something outside of the box without knowing where the box is, i consider luck.

I'd rather learn where the box is learn how to work in the box so that i can learn to work outside of it. odds of success seem greater to me that way.

 

[unpopular]

And my point, just to simplify it down to a comprehensible nugget is this:

Some art can be produced by relatively untrained geniuses. Some art cannot. Photography is of the first sort, baking is not.

IDK. Some would say that Woodman was a photographic prodigy.

to do something out of the box and make something creative with knowledge i would consider that person skilled

to do something outside of the box without knowing where the box is, i consider luck.

I'd rather learn where the box is learn how to work in the box so that i can learn to work outside of it. odds of success seem greater to me that way.

and certainly her work was 'outside of the box'

 

[Derrel]

I've spent the past couple of weeks reading countless threads here on TPF (and several other forums). I'm noticing a trend, and I wanted to throw my concerns out there. I'm sure I'll be burned at the stake for this post, but I think it's important.

Wait--what's that hubbub I can hear in the distance? A mob? A growing mob? Oh, my!

"I've got the diesel!"

"I have the matches!"

"I brought rope and a fencepost! "

"This looks like a good spot right here!"

"So, where's he live at again?"

"Over THERE!!!!!!! Let's get 'im!!!" [sound of man footsetps, running!]

 

[manaheim]

There are no oil painting prodigies. It's just too difficult a form to master. There are no prodigies of sculpture. There ARE prodigies of the piano. They're not the world's greatest pianist at age 10, but they're awfully good.

This has to do with the mechanics of the art, leaning to press a piano key expressively is, ultimately, not very hard. All that is required after that is the ability to press a lot of them in a more or less predetermined sequence, with suitable expression at each turn. This can be taught, and to a surprising degree can be simply intuited. The prodigies, in general, have had a shocking amount of formal training by age 10, but nonetheless, the 10 year old can play.

The lowest-level mechanic of oil painting, the smudging of a single blob of paint onto a piece of canvas in an expressive way, appears to simply be harder, or to require a higher degree of cognitive or motor development. Carving marble, of course, requires motor skills that no 10 year old possesses. There are surely ten year olds with the higher level innate talent to visualize, to imagine what they WOULD paint, but for whatever reason they cannot manage the physical act.

What about photography? The lowest level mechanic is 'press this button'. The ability to press a button, plus the ability to "see" for a very particular meaning of that verb, is really all that is necessary for photography as art. Commercial is another kettle of fish entirely, of course.

Photography resembles baking pastries in no interesting way whatsoever. Cooking at a high level requires a wide range of skills, large and small, from knowing how to crack eggs, to stir, all the way to knowing what is going to happen when you add these three ingredients together. Cooking requires you to be able to "visualize" flavors and how they will interact, and you still need to experiment.

Photography requires the ability to "see" (which, if teachable at all, is certainly much more innate to some people than others) and the ability to push a button.

Francesca Woodman comes to mind. I don't much care for her work, but you can't really ignore it.

Are you a pianist?

 

[amolitor]

Are you a pianist?

If people who play the piano extremely poorly are pianists, then I am a pianist. If not, no.

 

[cgipson1]

Are you a pianist?

If people who play the piano extremely poorly are pianists, then I am a pianist. If not, no.

Does that mean that those who claim to be artists.. but do art poorly... are NOT artists?