Strobes + SpeedLights w D810

[kdthomas]

OK, so I have my speedos set up and working with a pocketwizard-esque device that physically blocks the built-in flash from coming up all the way. No worries there. But lets say that I wanted to bring the speedlights into the mix.

I now have commander mode on the new D810. I want to use the speedlights in manual mode: "OK speedlights, don't try to be cute. Just shut the hell up and fire at the power level I've set you to, when I pull the trigger"

So I hit the shutter, set at 1/125. The speedlights and the strobes will fire at the same instant.

edit: I also detest those monitor pre-flashes. I'd like to be rid of them

Can I do this?

 

[beachrat]

Well,you can't use commander if the built in isn't popped up,so just set the speedlights to fire in optical slave mode(SU-4 for Nikons).

 

[qleak]

OK, so I have my speedos set up and working with a pocketwizard-esque device that physically blocks the built-in flash from coming up all the way. No worries there. But lets say that I wanted to bring the speedlights into the mix.

I now have commander mode on the new D810. I want to use the speedlights in manual mode: "OK speedlights, don't try to be cute. Just shut the hell up and fire at the power level I've set you to, when I pull the trigger"

So I hit the shutter, set at 1/125. The speedlights and the strobes will fire at the same instant.

I'll take a stab at this setup. You have 2 x sb700s right? If you have 3 pocket wizard transceivers you're set just use them. Here are some other options:

(2 transceivers): Set up one flash in su-4 optical trigger mode and the other on the transceiver.

(no transceivers CLS): Ditch the transceivers and use the D810 built-in flash to trigger.
You could use the Nikon Creative Lighting system, but that uses pre-flash to synchronize and set levels. That's when you'd use the commander mode. It would make it so that the builtin flash only fires before the frame is open to say: "Hey dudes! go off in 1/5 second" or something like that

(no transceivers SU-4): Ditch the transceivers and set both SB700's to SU-4 remote mode. You will probably want to set them to manual also and adjust their power to what you want before you shoot it's probably best to stop down and raise the power somewhere around 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 to make the built-in flash less significant (unless you want to use the builtin flash). You'll need to set your built-in flash to manual too. I'd go 1/128 power (or whatever the lowest d810 setting is), because all you need is the "pop" to trigger the other flashes. If you're able to put the camera flash at low enough power relative to the sb700's it won't affect the exposure much, don't forget the inverse square law too, by having your SB700's closer you will get less relative exposure from the built-in flash.

edit: I also detest those monitor pre-flashes. I'd like to be rid of them

To fully get rid of pre-flashes you need to shut off TTL flash and not use nikon CLS (su-4 mode is king then).

Best,

-Q

 

[qleak]

ahh.. okay I think i understand you conundrum a little better, when using the transceiver attached to the hotshoe commander mode is not active on the d810 body as it should be tied only to the builtin flash (like the d7100) it treats the transceiver like an attached flash.

The manual on page 331 of the d810
Specifies that commander mode is only for the built-in flash.

You may have to set the camera to manual mode to get rid of TTL preflashes which would be broadcast by your transceiver, I'm not 100% sure on this.

 

[beachrat]

I think he's already triggering a full set of Speedotron strobes and wants to add the speedlights to the mix.
In that case,unless he has 2 more receivers,the opticals should work fine.

 

[qleak]

I think he's already triggering a full set of Speedotron strobes and wants to add the speedlights to the mix.
In that case,unless he has 2 more receivers,the opticals should work fine.

I must have missed that bit. Only tricky bit then is to set the sb700's to su-4 remote mode and manual mode. You'll have to set the settings on the sb700's manually

 

[Derrel]

I have used this type of optical slave a "household" or 2-bladed style, since 1986. Shut off the pre-flash nonsense with the Nikons, get the nNikons synchronizing with their own kind, and the Speedo pack with this slave will fire at the right time as all the other flashes fire.

FlashZebra.com: Optical Slave – Extended Range Version – with HH Sync Connector – Sonia Brand (Item #0256)

 

[beachrat]

I think he's already triggering a full set of Speedotron strobes and wants to add the speedlights to the mix.
In that case,unless he has 2 more receivers,the opticals should work fine.

I must have missed that bit. Only tricky bit then is to set the sb700's to su-4 remote mode and manual mode. You'll have to set the settings on the sb700's manually

Another option would be to use the commander in manual mode(no pre flash) to fire the SB-700s, and trip the Speedo with a plug in optical.



edit: Derrel beat me to it

 

[qleak]

Another option would be to use the commander in manual mode(no pre flash) to fire the SB-700s, and trip the Speedo with a plug in optical.

No using the Nikon CLS commander mode will always have pre-flashes, that's just how it communicates with the other flash groups.

 

[beachrat]

No using the Nikon CLS commander mode will always have pre-flashes, that's just how it communicates with the other flash groups.[/QUOTE]

Damn,that's right.

 

[Derrel]

How about pure optical slave triggering on everything? Or radio triggering on the speedlights, and a household slave on the Speedotron pack? Flashzebra.com has alllllllllllll the possible flashes and or cords one would need for triggering a mix of things.

 

[kdthomas]

I have used this type of optical slave a "household" or 2-bladed style, since 1986. Shut off the pre-flash nonsense with the Nikons, get the nNikons synchronizing with their own kind, and the Speedo pack with this slave will fire at the right time as all the other flashes fire.

FlashZebra.com: Optical Slave – Extended Range Version – with HH Sync Connector – Sonia Brand (Item #0256)

Great info guys thanx ... Derrel do you ever run into sync speed issues at 1/125 with this type of setup?

 

[Derrel]

No, but I have Pocket Wizard triggers, and a good, high-grade genuine Wein brand slave for the Speedotrons. I have used the Wein slave for a lot of years, and it's not a cheap, MIC model--it was around $70 when it was finally discontinued in favor of the newer, headphone style. Different triggers can cause synch issues, and there's always a possibility that "mixed environment setups" will NOT reach the full 1/250 synch limit, or even 1/200, or even 1/180 or 1/160 or whatever. But that should not matter one bit indoors, shooting at 1/125 or even 1/60 second. In fact 1/125 was the top synch speed throughout pretty much the entire decade of the 1970's on all focal plane shutters; 1/125 was considered a "fast" X-synch speed for a FP shutter.

The very first area to check on e-Bay triggers are the batteries. I've seen reports of slow max synchronization speeds when the batteries are low, and reports of full capabilities restored when new batteries are installed. Interesting, I checke d eBay tonight and there is a TON of really weird Speedo stuff for sale tonight! I saw an MW3 flash head for $69 buy it now priced.

 

[WayneF]

OK, so I have my speedos set up and working with a pocketwizard-esque device that physically blocks the built-in flash from coming up all the way. No worries there. But lets say that I wanted to bring the speedlights into the mix.

I now have commander mode on the new D810. I want to use the speedlights in manual mode: "OK speedlights, don't try to be cute. Just shut the hell up and fire at the power level I've set you to, when I pull the trigger"

So I hit the shutter, set at 1/125. The speedlights and the strobes will fire at the same instant.

edit: I also detest those monitor pre-flashes. I'd like to be rid of them

Can I do this?

You will have serious issues mixing Commander with any other manual flash gear.

The Commander "Manual" mode is the furthest thing from real Manual mode.

Manual mode, we set a power level in the remote flash, and then simply trigger it.

Commander Manual, first the commander has to flash signals to set the power level in the remote flash (from the Commander menu). Then the shutter opens and the flashes are triggered. Other real manual optical slaves have already fired though, from the command signal.

This incompatibility (commander with manual gear) has been actively discussed for years.

You cannot even use a flash meter to meter the commanders remote flashes. To make them flash, all you will meter is the weak initial command.

Opening the internal flash door for commander automatically disconnects the cameras PC sync connection.

There are a couple of fluke workarounds for a couple of specific cases, but generally, this is a troublesome route to choose.

The correct way is to simply choose one, either a manual system or a commander system, and go with it.

If using manual flash, forget commander, and simply put the remote Nikon speedlights into SU-4 mode. This is REAL manual mode with conventional optical slave. Or put radio triggers on them, again, real manual flash mode.

 

[Braineack]

why aren't we just putting the Speedlights in SU-4 mode?