suggestions...

[mysteryscribe]

........You wanted suggestions I'll start with mine which I think make sense.

(1) If you want critique and suggestions, go to the critique.

(2) If you just want opinions and strokes then go to the gallery.

(3) Limit the number of posts in the critique section to ten per member per month or some such thing to keep people from showing their whole portfolio one at a time. Those aren't looking for critique they are looking for strokes.

(4) if you offer critique you must post images somewhere on the site so your value can be judged by the participants.

Im sure others can add more but those are off the top of my head. Hey you asked for suggestions...

 

[mysteryscribe]

What I think might have happened here is you threw out the baby with the bathwater. It might have been a better idea to fix the old forum than to toss it for something new.

 

[PNA]

What I think might have happened here is you threw out the baby with the bathwater. It might have been a better idea to fix the old forum than to toss it for something new.

I found you....

Alter the thread in such a way that's fair and equitable for all. Agree, the changes are way to drastic.

5) Edits are acceptable with explanations. (Told you I was flexible)

6) Limit the intrusion of the mods....let the discussions die of their own.

 

[Chase]

Appreciate the input so far. The real trick here is finding the balance between just letting people really discuss things (very unmoderated) and trying to keep the content "above a certain level" (much more moderated). The less moderation that happens, the more chance we have of losing value and it becoming just another gallery....too much moderation and we stop basic conversations that can also be beneficial. Finding that happy mid ground has proven to be nearly impossible.

 

[mysteryscribe]

I'm sure that is true. I can image that it is tough trying to make all the members happy. Most likely it is impossible. I was surprised the level of anger and the level of defensiveness going on about that one thread. If you carve your rules in stone you are going to have a stagnant thread quickly I would expect. I don't know that I have no way to know. It is just my guess.

Anyway the new thread is not my cup of tea so I can leave that alone and try to enjoy the rest of the site. Too bad you can't put a lock on the door though.

By the way can one request to be banned. It is about the only way I can keep myself out of trouble.

 

[PNA]

Please explain what is wrong with discussions of a personal nature that may have been introduce by way of the posted photograph?? Like where the the shot was taken....Maybe I've been there and it's refreshing to share an experience with the poster or any one who joins in. It seems relevant to the subject at hand.

Explain......

 

[Chase]

By the way can one request to be banned. It is about the only way I can keep myself out of trouble.

We charge extra for that :lmao:

 

[Chase]

Please explain what is wrong with discussions of a personal nature that may have been introduce by way of the posted photograph?? Like where the the shot was taken....Maybe I've been there and it's refreshing to share an experience with the poster or any one who joins in. It seems relevant to the subject at hand.

Explain......

I understand your question, and I'd like to sort of answer it with another question. Not trying to put you on the spot, but I'd like to hear your take on this.

What do you see as the difference between our galleries and the critique area?

The reason I ask is that we are trying to make the critique area a learning tool, much more so than a gallery. In a gallery sense, critique happens there as well, but very informally and much more conversationally. In the critique area, the concept of the approach is much different, and therefore we are looking to handle it differently (and hopefully with more general benefit for those we are specifically looking for that kind of feedback).

One point that I think people may have tried to make, but came across poorly, is that the majority of what I see people feeling is lost are things that the regular galleries provide. If you post something in the general gallery and ask for input, you will get it, many times lots of. Critique can and does happen there, but in a very unstructured way. I believe the vast majority of what people post "belongs" there, even if they are looking for some level of critique. The concept of the critique forum is to be much more structured in format and to push people to really provide detailed content, which is where the increased level of moderation comes into play.

Again, I'm far from saying any of this is a perfect concept or a perfect execution, but I'm hoping that better stating my views on it may help. The is one small area of the forum that shouldn't detract from other areas, but at the same time, won't be an area that everyone finds enjoyment in either. Just like many avoid off topic because it doesn't "do anything" for them, critique is sort of the same way in a sense. That isn't the only place people can get critique, but it is a specific place to get critique if that is the kind you are looking for. And, at risk of sounding like a broken record, it is a work in progress just like the rest of the site

 

[PNA]

At this moment, there a 0, that's zero viewing the critique forums.....

Have the members been scared off???? with the New guidelines??? and inforcements policy????

 

[Chase]

Also, just a side note, I've been viewing and responding to all of this from my laptop in an airport for the last day or so. All of yesterdays posts from me were from sitting in an airport terminal where my flight eventually got canceled, and I am back here this morning. So, I'm doing my best to stay on top of things, but there will be some big gaps in my ability to do so....not to mention that its very possible that I will miss some details. Just wanted to let you all know.

 

[PNA]

As a pilot, I may not have sympathy for you....where are you stuck?

 

[PNA]

I understand your question, and I'd like to sort of answer it with another question. Not trying to put you on the spot, but I'd like to hear your take on this.

What do you see as the difference between our galleries and the critique area?

Frankly, not much except that you have narrowed the amout of interest in the critique section by limiting it to the number of qualified people expressing opinions on just the photos. Ther's no personality involved....it's dry, bone dry!

 

[mysteryscribe]

To be honest Chase, I don't use your critique area because I was told quietly and informally by someone I consider close to the critique that my kind of comments would not be welcome in there. I would either have to change my style or I would be chastized.

Now I have banged around this business for 30plus years as have a lot of others. Most of them have done more and better work I'm sure. I come at things from a totally different background but I don't think that makes my opinion less valuable in the real world of photography.

I have slipped in and looked around and the person did me a favor. I can look at all this more objectively than someone who feels slighted. I got to make the dicission to avoid the room while I was calm not in the heat of anger.

Do I think the thread is focused wrong of course I do. Do I think it is flawed of course I do. What I expect to happen is for it to become an exclusive club with a few people taking turns posting more or less the same images over and over and the other half dozen or so people making comments. But since I was warned in advance of getting my ego crushed by comments like, you have said nothing of substance, I can look at it and say that's just not for me. If it is for those who are involved, thats fine with me but I do feel sorry for those who wander in there accidentally.

As I usually do I will say that this is just my opinion not meant to be taken as gospel.

 

[TwistMyArm]

........You wanted suggestions I'll start with mine which I think make sense.

(1) If you want critique and suggestions, go to the critique.

(2) If you just want opinions and strokes then go to the gallery.

(3) Limit the number of posts in the critique section to ten per member per month or some such thing to keep people from showing their whole portfolio one at a time. Those aren't looking for critique they are looking for strokes.

I don't think that this will necessarily be a problem. People posting several photos in one thread definitely was a problem that was addressed with the guidelines. However this is something we should keep an eye on. If it does turn out to be a problem then we can try to implement something like what you've suggested although 10/month may impact some members looking for serious critiques.

(4) if you offer critique you must post images somewhere on the site so your value can be judged by the participants.

I think one can agree or disagree with a critique without having to view the critic's own work. Something along these lines was touched on during the course of the discussions, but dismissed for reasons I can't remember at the moment. If one does need to view that persons work they can most often just view the critics own website to see the portfolio. It is usually much faster than searching through many past or present posts.

 

[mysteryscribe]

For those of us who recognize which opinions are of value i agree. For someone new to photography, they have a right to know the bonofides of the person doing the critique. Nothing says lovin like something from the camera.

Not everyone has a website or gallery listed.

Ps I looked in on the thread today and it looked a lot more civilized. However there is a lot of less than substanative comments being made. At least in a critique sense more things being mentioned were technical on the thread I read. To be honest I really just went in to see if it seemed calmer and it does.