The Bad, Mediocre, Good and Great Photographer

[Kane Adams]

I agree, as someone who sees himself as mediocre that's what I usually say when people ask me if I'm any good. But in the end it's partially true. I have some nice shots, some bad ones. From what I've learned though gear isn't all that matters. Any camera can make a great photograph.

 

[rexbobcat]

When somebody questions my abilities.

They quickly learn the error of their ways.

 

[The_Traveler]

My POV comes from having helped hundreds of people buy new gear, listening to their issues and concerns, and then helping them find the best "fit" for their needs.

It's been my experience that by the time people reach the "good photographer" level, that they are almost universally using what would be considered more or less state of the industry type gear. The Reuters survey of what lenses were used in 2013 pretty much proved that point; the Canon 16-35 f/2.8 L lens was used by more people for more photos than basically, all other lenses combined, around the world. This has been this way for decades, and that's why I agreed, the four genralizations you started with as a premise DO HAVE at least some basis in reality.

Here's one of the Reuters survey results articles. Lens-wise, 52.9% of the images were shot with the Canon 16-35/2.8-L zoom. Next was the 70-200 with 38.2%. The 24-105, and 24-70, and 100-400mm lenses each had TINY slices of the reminder; yes....the 24-70 was used for only a small fraction of Reuters news photos! f/2.8 was the most commonly-used aperture.

I don't think there's selection bias, because the survey is very clear on what its population is. It's working photojournalists that submit to Reuters and other major outlets. If I'm releasing a survey of what music 18-24 year olds like, the survey isn't biased because I left out 30 year olds. It's simply a survey of a different demographic. Same thing here. Just because they left out landscape photographers, doesn't make it biased, it makes it a different survey.

These types are going to settle in on a couple of workhorse lenses because they're easy to get a replacement if your is stolen, sent in for repair or lost by the airline. Doing sports professionally, the pros only use a very small handful of lenses: basically Canon and Nikon's f/2.8 70-200 and their f/2.8 300s.

I don't think the survey set out to make any claims about other fields of photography.

I don't think the survey is biased, those two lenses are a photojournalist's goto, everyday, workhorses. It isn't about replacement lenses, a staff photographer has access to practically any lens they desire. It is about what works for them, what lens enable them to easily get the shot the want. I suspect that the majority of images were shot at the extremes, 16mm, 35mm, 70mm and 200m (or close to the extremes). I tend to use a single zoom as two primes, I suspect most photojournalists shoot similarly.

Since Derrel bases a lot of his opinion on his background selling stuff to people, let me say that I base my opinion on years of teaching stats and experimental design to various grad student disciplines.

Although the survey limits itself to the PJs who submit to Reuters, Derrel didn't use those criteria when quoting it and that is the exact danger for that kind of survey.
There are many reasons why working PJs could be using those lenses and bodies - many are probably hidden and probably very few apply to any group outside of high level working PJs.

Maybe the PJs got better deals on Canon stuff.
Maybe the experienced PJs had a huge inventory of Canon stuff
Maybe Canon Professional services gave better service.
Maybe they liked the feel of the bodies or lenses
Maybe those lenses are more ubiquitous.
Maybe editors like the FOV of those kinds of images.

Who knows, but quoting the survey without any qualifiers makes believe that selection bias doesn't exist.

Without knowing the effects of the sampling then there is no way to know if the results can be extended outside the sample.

 

[Gary A.]

My POV comes from having helped hundreds of people buy new gear, listening to their issues and concerns, and then helping them find the best "fit" for their needs.

It's been my experience that by the time people reach the "good photographer" level, that they are almost universally using what would be considered more or less state of the industry type gear. The Reuters survey of what lenses were used in 2013 pretty much proved that point; the Canon 16-35 f/2.8 L lens was used by more people for more photos than basically, all other lenses combined, around the world. This has been this way for decades, and that's why I agreed, the four genralizations you started with as a premise DO HAVE at least some basis in reality.

Here's one of the Reuters survey results articles. Lens-wise, 52.9% of the images were shot with the Canon 16-35/2.8-L zoom. Next was the 70-200 with 38.2%. The 24-105, and 24-70, and 100-400mm lenses each had TINY slices of the reminder; yes....the 24-70 was used for only a small fraction of Reuters news photos! f/2.8 was the most commonly-used aperture.

I don't think there's selection bias, because the survey is very clear on what its population is. It's working photojournalists that submit to Reuters and other major outlets. If I'm releasing a survey of what music 18-24 year olds like, the survey isn't biased because I left out 30 year olds. It's simply a survey of a different demographic. Same thing here. Just because they left out landscape photographers, doesn't make it biased, it makes it a different survey.

These types are going to settle in on a couple of workhorse lenses because they're easy to get a replacement if your is stolen, sent in for repair or lost by the airline. Doing sports professionally, the pros only use a very small handful of lenses: basically Canon and Nikon's f/2.8 70-200 and their f/2.8 300s.

I don't think the survey set out to make any claims about other fields of photography.

I don't think the survey is biased, those two lenses are a photojournalist's goto, everyday, workhorses. It isn't about replacement lenses, a staff photographer has access to practically any lens they desire. It is about what works for them, what lens enable them to easily get the shot the want. I suspect that the majority of images were shot at the extremes, 16mm, 35mm, 70mm and 200m (or close to the extremes). I tend to use a single zoom as two primes, I suspect most photojournalists shoot similarly.

Since Derrel bases a lot of his opinion on his background selling stuff to people, let me say that I base my opinion on years of teaching stats and experimental design to various grad student disciplines.

Although the survey limits itself to the PJs who submit to Reuters, Derrel didn't use those criteria when quoting it and that is the exact danger for that kind of survey.
There are many reasons why working PJs could be using those lenses and bodies - many are probably hidden and probably very few apply to any group outside of high level working PJs.

Maybe the PJs got better deals on Canon stuff.
Maybe the experienced PJs had a huge inventory of Canon stuff
Maybe Canon Professional services gave better service.
Maybe they liked the feel of the bodies or lenses
Maybe those lenses are more ubiquitous.
Maybe editors like the FOV of those kinds of images.

Who knows, but quoting the survey without any qualifiers makes believe that selection bias doesn't exist.

Without knowing the effects of the sampling then there is no way to know if the results can be extended outside the sample.

Oh please ... you're the one who is stretching. The survey didn't ask photojournalists which lenses were a deal or how the lens felt ... et cetera.

 

[Derrel]

Although the survey limits itself to the PJs who submit to Reuters, Derrel didn't use those criteria when quoting it and that is the exact danger for that kind of survey.

Sorry Lew, but I mentioned Reuters multiple times...The Most Popular Cameras and Settings for Reuters 2012 Photos of the Year. You do note that the link is as follows, right: "The Most Popular Cameras and Settings for Reuters 2012 Photos of The Year"?

See how the link I provided says,"The Most Popular Cameras and Settings for Reuters 2012 Photos of The Year"

In post # 7 I wrote, "The Reuters survey of what lenses were used…"

In Post #9 I began with this phrase: "Here's one of the Reuters survey results articles"

R_E_U_T_E_R_S. Nice try Lew, but your aspersions against me are entirely without merit. It's a small survey, over a distinct time period. I never claimed it to be representative of anything except what it was labeled as: a survey showing what the Reuters Photos of The Year were actually shot with. The idea I thought people could extract is that top-level shooters are all pretty much using a very narrow set of high-level equipment. I also point out in other replies that that's the way high-level photography has been for over a century; the top shooters all gravitate to whatever is "top-level" gear during their era.

I didn't see any beginner-level 18-55 $99 kit lenses in the survey results...because of ALL the top photos shot by Reuters shooters that year, the zoom lenses were five different L-series models target at high-end shooters.

 

[Vtec44]

If it means anything, I am an AMAZING photographer. BTW, that's one step above great.

 

[table1349]

Never play cards with a man called Doc.
Never eat at a place called Mom’s.
Never sleep with a woman whose troubles are greater than your own.

 

[Gary A.]

If it means anything, I am an AMAZING photographer. BTW, that's one step above great.

Means nothing.

 

[The_Traveler]

Not the point.

Reuters judges have their own criteria and pick according to that so the survey is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

The most one could say from that survey is that, if anyone wants to have a better shot at being chosen as a great photo by the Reuter's editors then shoot using thus and such focal lengths and thus and such apertures.
Any other conclusion is assuming facts not proven.
The conclusion may be true or may not but is unproven by that survey.

 

[Gary A.]

And the best thing one can say about your remarks regarding the survey, is that by your standards, you're never wrong.

 

[Vtec44]

Means nothing.

It's all good, as long as clients are willing to pay.

 

[The_Traveler]

And the best thing one can say about your remarks regarding the survey, is that by your standards, you're never wrong.

Why attack me?
Just point out where what I said was incorrect.
The judges picked what they liked - and the survey showed what the judges liked.
You can believe that those results are consistent for all PJs no matter who but it is just belief.

 

[The_Traveler]

There is a good argument why 16-35 and 70-200 are popular focal lengths and appeal to editors and the public and that is that they are distinctly different from the 'focal length' of human vision and so have a visual impact. They lok different enough and command attention.
I'd buy that as as good an explanation as anything else but, that being said, photos in those focal lengths are popular with editors and that's all one can make of the survey.

 

[Gary A.]

And the best thing one can say about your remarks regarding the survey, is that by your standards, you're never wrong.

Why attack me?
Just point out where what I said was incorrect.
The judges picked what they liked - and the survey showed what the judges liked.
You can believe that those results are consistent for all PJs no matter who but it is just belief.

The defense rests.