The people on this forum make me sick

[JTPhotography]

Because they didn't walk the same distance you did to get to it? Yeah, they did. So much for the work part.

Because they didn't think to go shoot that location? Yeah, they did. Oh, the reason YOU thought it up is different than the reason THEY thought it up, so only yours counts, eh?

So then, ANY shot you've EVER seen in your lifetime that might inspire you to go get a similar shot, like say, a landscape with a bridge out in the middle of nowhere, is off limits to you, because someone else thought it up first, right? Or does that only apply to SPECIFIC locations that YOU want to claim as "YOURS"?

So, tell us, what EXACTLY was it that made you want to go shoot whatever it was that is so unique to YOUR brain, and nobody else's? Seeing photos of landscapes with bridges out in the middle of nowhere didn't inspire you to go find and shoot a bridge out in the middle of nowhere, right? Because that would just be copying someone else's idea, right? So, what was it?

Tell us, oh unique one, what photographic ideas you've come up with that are totally unique to the world of photography, that you've never seen examples of before, that could never have been inspired in you by seeing examples of them previously by others.

Tell us what's so "original" about shooting landscapes with or without bridges out in the middle of nowhere.

i shot it because i was there. I was there because i follow some of the history around this area. i asked someone involved in local history about where the old train tracks ran in that area. i pulled out my 1800's map and looked at it. Talked to them again to get a better idea of where i might be heading. Then i went searching. The train hasn't run through there in a hundred years. Had nothing to do with me seeing others photos. Had everything to do with my curiosity and determination to track something down. Now if you think i would be a little upset if some weekend fair weather photo wannabee hobbyist with dslr decided ask me where it is because they want to copy my photo, then yeah.. They can go look for it too and come up with their own perspective. .

By the way, what about all the other snapshots where you obviously DIDN'T put that much effort into getting the shots? Shots like where you're just walking around town, see some buildings that interest you for some reason, and shoot them?

Are they fair game for other shooters, or do you "own" them now too, and how do you let other photographers know what it is that you now "own" photographically speaking, and therefore what they are and are not allowed to shoot?

People can shoot whatever they want. I just don't want me or my photographs involved in what they shoot. They are better off coming up with their own voice and ideas anyway. Otherwise everyones photographs look the same. At this point about everything has been done. . You manage to come up with anything original or even semi original covet it. I don't understand why someone would want to copy a photo anyway. I can see a style or premise of a era. I do that. Copying someones actual photo i would think would be worthless on a personal level. It isn't like you actually came up with it. I don't even buy photos or art i would rather make my own. It means more. why on earth would i want someone elses photo or even a mimic of it? Suppose for some people they copy it, get some likes on facebook or maybe sell a print. That is all that matters to them. Maybe they just liked the "idea" and wanted to copy it. Course they never came up with it themselves so it is all pretty much fake and not who they are. Just who they copied..

I like how you just go on and on and on and on without actually addressing the questions raised because of the problems with your statements. Does that come natural, or do you have to work at it?

There is no problem with his statement, he made himself clear.

Put all his posts on this subject together, and it's as clear as mud. His response to this one carried on at length without actually addressing the post he quoted, one of your pet peeves, as I recall, and he completely ignored all the questions and comments in the one before that, like someone running from something scary.

I suspect that the reason this topic has made you so angry

Oh look! There's that faux-mind reading thing you think you know how to do again. Too bad I'm not at all angry. Pull out your Magic 8 Ball and guess again.

is that you engage in this type of copying quite frequently and/or have been called out on it before? Is that true?

Sorry, nope. I've certainly made photos similar to those that others before me have also made, and that others after me will also make, but never been "called out on it", which would be childish of someone to do.

I think your Magic 8 Ball might be broken. Might want to have that checked out...

So you admit to it. Enough said.

 

[JTPhotography]

I answered it. But you can keep bumping the thread with your angry nonsense, that is, if you're not too busy stealing photos.

Wow! Really?! I see only 2 people here that are angry, and it ain't the Buckster.

I'm not angry, I am opinionated. Buckster is angry, and he is defensive. That usually means guilty.

 

[Buckster]

I never said every landscape shot is not totally unique. I never said that I don't show my work for fear of other photographer's emulating it. If you're going to debate, quote, and respond to me directly, then address what I said, not what you think I said.

I'm addressing the conversation as a whole, and your part in it. You said that the original photographer shot it in a way that made that location totally unique. I agree, but not for the same reason that you and Brian apparently do.

I agree because, as I explained, EVERY photo of that location MUST BE unique. There is no choice in the matter.

THAT SAID, any other photograph taken of that location by any other photographer is not infringing on the original photographers "UNIQUE" photograph. It CAN'T. It is itself unique because it MUST BE.

I thought my response made that thought clear. Does this one?

No, I didn't say anything about the original photographer making it unique.

You said:

we're talking about a specific location or angle or perspective that makes that shot, as far as you know, totally unique

Who took that shot from, "a specific location or angle or perspective that makes that shot, as far as you know, totally unique"? You now clarify that it's not the original photographer, so who?

I'm talking specifically about people who see me shooting somewhere then shoot from that exact location, something they would have never had they not seen me do it

You don't know that's true, and you certainly can't prove it. They might have had the idea before you, and you just happened to get there first. Maybe it's one of their favorite shooting spots, a spot they've visited and shot from many times. Are you a mind reader?

, or people who see a photo, figure out where it was taken and go try and replicate it.

We've been talking about that. Half Dome is a classic example of it. Why is it wrong for people to go shoot photos of Half Dome?

I also said there is a ton of gray area here, some cases are more obvious that others. I don't see your shooting half dome as wrong at all.

Why not? Someone else shot it first. Thousands, maybe millions, shot it before I did. And someone was FIRST - why doesn't that FIRST shooter "OWN" Half Dome? Why is that any different from any other location that YOU shot first? Or that Brian shot first? Or that I shot first? Or that anyone else shot first? Explain it to me please. What is it about you or Brian that I should respect, while we all flip the first photographer of Half Dome the bird?

If you were shooting half dome with a certain cool rock you found while you were exploring and someone saw you, stopped and waited for you to finish, then shot it, that would be wrong IMO.

Why? What's the difference between shooting it with that perspective, and just shooting it the way the original Half Dome shooter shot it? Why do you have to respect the way I shot it and not do the same, but you don't have to respect the way the first Half Dome shooter shot it and respect them and not do the same?

Explain it to me.

Man you're wayyyy overthinking this. It is a matter of right and wrong. Plagiarism is wrong, the more specific it is, the more wrong it is. If you think it is ok to plagiarize, then I can't change your mind.

You're the one saying it's okay sometimes and that it's a gray area. I'm just trying to find out from you how you decide when it's wrong and when it's not. Where and how do you draw the line?

Someone shot Half Dome first. Why don't you think we need to respect that, but others have to respect anything you shoot first?

It's a simple question.

I answered it.

No, you didn't. I don't blame you, as it would make it very obvious what a foolish notion it is for you to have if you tried to defend it. You needn't worry about that though - everyone reading the thread is already aware of it anyway. I just think it'd be fun to see you try.

 

[Buckster]

I'm going to make a statement that should give you all chills............................... always be looking over your shoulder. I'm always lurking about. And I'll take any photo I damn well want to. Even if I get the idea from you! So there.




...........


ETA: secure your gear!!!

Good idea.

I'm specifically going to find and follow Brian and JT around, stand where they stand and shoot what they shoot. I'm going to make sure that I shoot at the same ISO, shutter and aperture settings they do, then I'm going to process them exactly the same way as them, even if I have to hire a hacker to see what they see on their systems. I want to be SURE that I replicate their photos exactly, so that no one can tell them apart.

This will obviously allow me to win at life and photography.

Spoken like a man with experience.

Oh, the desperation! How about this one: I know you are, but what am I?

 

[Buckster]

i shot it because i was there. I was there because i follow some of the history around this area. i asked someone involved in local history about where the old train tracks ran in that area. i pulled out my 1800's map and looked at it. Talked to them again to get a better idea of where i might be heading. Then i went searching. The train hasn't run through there in a hundred years. Had nothing to do with me seeing others photos. Had everything to do with my curiosity and determination to track something down. Now if you think i would be a little upset if some weekend fair weather photo wannabee hobbyist with dslr decided ask me where it is because they want to copy my photo, then yeah.. They can go look for it too and come up with their own perspective. .

By the way, what about all the other snapshots where you obviously DIDN'T put that much effort into getting the shots? Shots like where you're just walking around town, see some buildings that interest you for some reason, and shoot them?

Are they fair game for other shooters, or do you "own" them now too, and how do you let other photographers know what it is that you now "own" photographically speaking, and therefore what they are and are not allowed to shoot?

People can shoot whatever they want. I just don't want me or my photographs involved in what they shoot. They are better off coming up with their own voice and ideas anyway. Otherwise everyones photographs look the same. At this point about everything has been done. . You manage to come up with anything original or even semi original covet it. I don't understand why someone would want to copy a photo anyway. I can see a style or premise of a era. I do that. Copying someones actual photo i would think would be worthless on a personal level. It isn't like you actually came up with it. I don't even buy photos or art i would rather make my own. It means more. why on earth would i want someone elses photo or even a mimic of it? Suppose for some people they copy it, get some likes on facebook or maybe sell a print. That is all that matters to them. Maybe they just liked the "idea" and wanted to copy it. Course they never came up with it themselves so it is all pretty much fake and not who they are. Just who they copied..

I like how you just go on and on and on and on without actually addressing the questions raised because of the problems with your statements. Does that come natural, or do you have to work at it?

There is no problem with his statement, he made himself clear.

Put all his posts on this subject together, and it's as clear as mud. His response to this one carried on at length without actually addressing the post he quoted, one of your pet peeves, as I recall, and he completely ignored all the questions and comments in the one before that, like someone running from something scary.

I suspect that the reason this topic has made you so angry

Oh look! There's that faux-mind reading thing you think you know how to do again. Too bad I'm not at all angry. Pull out your Magic 8 Ball and guess again.

is that you engage in this type of copying quite frequently and/or have been called out on it before? Is that true?

Sorry, nope. I've certainly made photos similar to those that others before me have also made, and that others after me will also make, but never been "called out on it", which would be childish of someone to do.

I think your Magic 8 Ball might be broken. Might want to have that checked out...

So you admit to it. Enough said.

It's true. I've taken photos of Half Dome.

I'm so ashamed...

 

[JTPhotography]

I'm going to make a statement that should give you all chills............................... always be looking over your shoulder. I'm always lurking about. And I'll take any photo I damn well want to. Even if I get the idea from you! So there.




...........


ETA: secure your gear!!!

Good idea.

I'm specifically going to find and follow Brian and JT around, stand where they stand and shoot what they shoot. I'm going to make sure that I shoot at the same ISO, shutter and aperture settings they do, then I'm going to process them exactly the same way as them, even if I have to hire a hacker to see what they see on their systems. I want to be SURE that I replicate their photos exactly, so that no one can tell them apart.

This will obviously allow me to win at life and photography.

Spoken like a man with experience.

Oh, the desperation! How about this one: I know you are, but what am I?

BTW, I like the way you purposefully missed the article I posted, in which a court validates my opinion and pretty much proves you as a supporter of WRONG. How does it feel to be so wrong, Bucky? ROFL

 

[Buckster]

I answered it. But you can keep bumping the thread with your angry nonsense, that is, if you're not too busy stealing photos.

Wow! Really?! I see only 2 people here that are angry, and it ain't the Buckster.

I'm not angry, I am opinionated. Buckster is angry, and he is defensive. That usually means guilty.

Project much?

I'm going to make a statement that should give you all chills............................... always be looking over your shoulder. I'm always lurking about. And I'll take any photo I damn well want to. Even if I get the idea from you! So there.




...........


ETA: secure your gear!!!

Good idea.

I'm specifically going to find and follow Brian and JT around, stand where they stand and shoot what they shoot. I'm going to make sure that I shoot at the same ISO, shutter and aperture settings they do, then I'm going to process them exactly the same way as them, even if I have to hire a hacker to see what they see on their systems. I want to be SURE that I replicate their photos exactly, so that no one can tell them apart.

This will obviously allow me to win at life and photography.

Spoken like a man with experience.

Oh, the desperation! How about this one: I know you are, but what am I?

BTW, I like the way you purposefully missed the article I posted, in which a court validates my opinion and pretty much proves you as a supporter of WRONG. How does it feel to be so wrong, Bucky? ROFL

That article was already addressed by rexbobcat. Put simply, what we're discussing is not in the situation nor the realm of what the courts are addressing in cases like that.

Now it's your turn. If you think it's just plain wrong, why do you say there are exceptions and that there's a big gray area and that we don't need to respect the first shooter of Half Dome (and a million other places and subjects like it, one would then assume), but we have to respect you?

Go ahead and explain your reasoning for where and how you draw the line this time, instead of ignoring it yet again.

 

[bribrius]

Feb 11:

That or hopefully from the photos on the website or posted here and with the discussion on the forum people can work it out. The best things come with a bit of effort and this certainly looks worthwhile. The results are stunning, as you can see.

Feb 21:

The people on this forum make me sick with jealousy as they are so good. Most photos are simply stunning compared to anything I can compose.

At the moment not sure if they inspire me to learn more and try to become better, or, to just give up and look at other peoples photos and skills.

That's quite an attitude change in 10 days. I thought your results were in your own words "stunning" and you believed that "the best things come with a bit of effort"?

Modesty is an important part of the learning process and losing the pride and attitude will help. I'm right there with you, the immense experience of some of the people here is intimidating but it's also quite flattering when they choose to help me improve. You may want to resurrect your opinion about effort.

My surreal photos are stunning when compared to normal photos but that is due to the unique surreal technique and the huge amount of work put into working out what it is and does to the subject matter. Not my skills as a normal photographer.

Basically I think I am a one trick pony. I am awestruck by the standard and 'eye' that people have but having read this forum I am now realising how much effort and learning over many years it could take. Especially as someone replied saying that you are not even guaranteed being good at the end of it!

I guess I have to decide long term what I want to do with and get out of photography.

Just enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it don't do it. Doesn't matter who is better than you, who is worse than you. All that matters is that you do your own thing having it a part of your life and you enjoy it. Far as experience. Not sure. You may find happier newbies with their first cameras than you will experienced good long term photographers. you could be better at photography thirty years from now and be a totally miserable person and hate doing it. I like some of your photos. Maybe you will find another trick. sorry the thread got derailed.

 

[JTPhotography]

I answered it. But you can keep bumping the thread with your angry nonsense, that is, if you're not too busy stealing photos.

Wow! Really?! I see only 2 people here that are angry, and it ain't the Buckster.

I'm not angry, I am opinionated. Buckster is angry, and he is defensive. That usually means guilty.

Project much?

I'm going to make a statement that should give you all chills............................... always be looking over your shoulder. I'm always lurking about. And I'll take any photo I damn well want to. Even if I get the idea from you! So there.




...........


ETA: secure your gear!!!

Good idea.

I'm specifically going to find and follow Brian and JT around, stand where they stand and shoot what they shoot. I'm going to make sure that I shoot at the same ISO, shutter and aperture settings they do, then I'm going to process them exactly the same way as them, even if I have to hire a hacker to see what they see on their systems. I want to be SURE that I replicate their photos exactly, so that no one can tell them apart.

This will obviously allow me to win at life and photography.

Spoken like a man with experience.

Oh, the desperation! How about this one: I know you are, but what am I?

BTW, I like the way you purposefully missed the article I posted, in which a court validates my opinion and pretty much proves you as a supporter of WRONG. How does it feel to be so wrong, Bucky? ROFL

That article was already addressed by rexbobcat. Put simply, what we're discussing is not in the situation nor the realm of what the courts are addressing in cases like that.

Now it's your turn. If you think it's just plain wrong, why do you say there are exceptions and that there's a big gray area and that we don't need to respect the first shooter of Half Dome (and a million other places and subjects like it, one would then assume), but we have to respect you?

Go ahead and explain your reasoning for where and how you draw the line this time, instead of ignoring it yet again.

Wow, Bucky the angry supporter of immorality and plagiarism gets REALLY angry when he is called out and proven to be wrong. The repeated question answering is a typical diversion response. Boring. Considering your anger issues, I am somewhat hesitant to post more info proving you to be wrong, but I will do so anyway, because you are WRONG. Hopefully you won't take it out on your cat or anything.
----------------------------------------------------

"In the interest of looking at the various aspects I can think of, let’s simply assume we only have one case to consider, involving photographers X and Y, with X’s photos being older than Y’s.

If we know for a fact that Y looked at X’s photographs and then decided “I’m going to take the same photos” we’d be all set. Case closed. Plagiarism.

Conscientious When does similar become too similar

------------------------------------------------------
In the rest of the article, he does a great job of explaining the gray area.

Here is another great example.

-----------------------------------------------------

Bialobrzeski vs Zielske: “a senseless act of imitation.”

After he won the top prize in the Arts Stories category in the 2003 World Press Photo awards for his dense and unreal dusk cityscapes of Asian cities, German photographer Peter Bialobrzeski became used to other photographers asking him for advice. But one phone call, from father-and-son team Horst and Daniel Zielske stuck in his mind for the specific detail they asked for, including the type of film, exposures and vantage points used.

“I wasn’t very suspicious [until] they were asking me specifically about this one photograph of the Nanpu Bridge. At that point I stopped the conversation and said ‘You have to find something out for yourself.’ “

However, when Bialobrzeski later saw the Zielske’s photograph of Shanghai’s Nanpu Bridge which was almost identical to one of his winning entries for the World Press Photo awards, he described it as “as if someone had burgled my house”, calling their photographs “a senseless act of imitation”

Last September Bialobrzeski asked the Hamburg Museum für Kunst und Gewerbe, who were about to host the Zielske’s “Megalopolis Shanghai” exhibition, to remove several images which he claimed bore significant similarities to his own earlier work.

The museum refused to do so, and told Photo District News that their lawyers had advised “…that the photographs in question are independent of each other, each of them being an image in its own right.”.

Bialobrzeski himself concedes that the issue is one of ethics, not of copyright. “It’s not a legal issue. It’s a moral issue,” he says. “I don’t want to live in a world where this happens all the time. There should be respect for intellectual property and ideas.”

http://www.epuk.org/images/245.jpg

Editorial Photographers UK - Visual plagiarism when does inspiration become imitation
-------------------------------------------------------

Lots of good examples there. Shame on them and shame on you for supporting such behavior. The final point is, it is a good discussion, one that needs to be planted in all photographer's minds, especially ones like you who are so obviously prone to supporting such behavior instead of taking the moral high ground.

 

[astroNikon]

I'm going to make a statement that should give you all chills............................... always be looking over your shoulder. I'm always lurking about. And I'll take any photo I damn well want to. Even if I get the idea from you! So there.




...........


ETA: secure your gear!!!

Good idea.

I'm specifically going to find and follow Brian and JT around, stand where they stand and shoot what they shoot. I'm going to make sure that I shoot at the same ISO, shutter and aperture settings they do, then I'm going to process them exactly the same way as them, even if I have to hire a hacker to see what they see on their systems. I want to be SURE that I replicate their photos exactly, so that no one can tell them apart.

This will obviously allow me to win at life and photography.

So .. you two are essentially going to act like a tourist ?

 

[snerd]

I'm going to make a statement that should give you all chills............................... always be looking over your shoulder. I'm always lurking about. And I'll take any photo I damn well want to. Even if I get the idea from you! So there.




...........


ETA: secure your gear!!!

Good idea.

I'm specifically going to find and follow Brian and JT around, stand where they stand and shoot what they shoot. I'm going to make sure that I shoot at the same ISO, shutter and aperture settings they do, then I'm going to process them exactly the same way as them, even if I have to hire a hacker to see what they see on their systems. I want to be SURE that I replicate their photos exactly, so that no one can tell them apart.

This will obviously allow me to win at life and photography.

So .. you two are essentially going to act like a tourist ?

When in Rome......................

 

[pgriz]

I plan to trademark my walk. The aesthetic appearance of this walk is unique to me, and I don't want anyone else to copy it, whether to imitate it or claim ownership of it. I will hereforth also vigorously pursue with all means available under the law all those who infringe my intellectual property rights. Let others discover their own way of walking that does not infringe on what I have created.

 

[astroNikon]

I plan to trademark my walk. The aesthetic appearance of this walk is unique to me, and I don't want anyone else to copy it, whether to imitate it or claim ownership of it. I will hereforth also vigorously pursue with all means available under the law all those who infringe my intellectual property rights. Let others discover their own way of walking that does not infringe on what I have created.

Yeah, but with my tax dollars I doth own all the sidewalks.
Please stay off of the sidewalks when you walk your trademarked walk.
Otherwise I'll have a Zamboni run you over

 

[pgriz]

I plan to trademark my walk. The aesthetic appearance of this walk is unique to me, and I don't want anyone else to copy it, whether to imitate it or claim ownership of it. I will hereforth also vigorously pursue with all means available under the law all those who infringe my intellectual property rights. Let others discover their own way of walking that does not infringe on what I have created.

Yeah, but with my tax dollars I doth own all the sidewalks.
Please stay off of the sidewalks when you walk your trademarked walk.
Otherwise I'll have a Zamboni run you over

Speaking of trademarks, the Zamboni family wants to talk to you (Trademarks Zamboni).

 

[Buckster]

Wow, Bucky the angry... blah, blah, blah...

I see you'll post anything you can think of, rather than answer the simple questions that prove you're a hypocrite on these related issues. That's SERIOUSLY funny, and SO transparently telling!

I love how you keep trying to project your anger issues onto me too, as if I have anything to be angry about. I'm not the one trying to deflect my own hypocrisy from being front and center based on my actual statements, the way you are.

Enjoy that petard you've hoisted yourself up by!