Trespassing and Police

[RMThompson]

It is sad what the world has become. But photography has indeed become a suspicious activity. Not long ago a person was stopped in Charlotte, NC, not 20 miles from my home for doing nothing but taking photos of uptown buildings. Turns out the person was linked to Al Kaida. He was using those very photographs for terrorist activities. He was tried and convicted for plotting to blow up some buildings. We cannot close our eyes to anything during these trying times.

Ugh... he STILL wasnt doing anything wrong when he was TAKING the pictures. It's the equivalent of buying wood from Home Depot, and then taking that wood, making a sword out of it, and using it to kill someone. Buying the wood was still legal

Taking pictures of a building on public property is and should be legal. It's out in the open, for all to see.

Remember FREEDOM? I'd rather be free than secure, but that's just me. It's finding the balance that's hard.

 

[RedDevilUK]

For example if you were to travel to Downtown Chicago and photograph the Sears Towers

the trouble with this and any other famous landmark is, thats the point??

im from Manchester, UK and if i was in Chicago, the very first thing i would do is take a picture of the Sears Tower....every major city in the world has a famous landmark, and we would all want a photo of it while we was there wouldnt we.

i guess the best way to detract from the accusation of being a terrorist, would be to have a partner or friend stand in front, and to be included in the picture... like a proper tourist

You could always crop them out of the final picture when you get home lol

 

[skates94]

Guys,

I'm sorry I didn't keep an eye on this post and it is a great post but between the kid's and a couple of jobs my time here was limited.... I hope that's changing.

If you still check this post here are some answers to your questions:

ADELICATEIMAGE
I can't speak for other states but in Illinois you can take all the pictures you want of police cruisers, officers, and the like. Your post says that you drove away and ultimately got pulled over. We need probable cause to make a traffic stop but that being said most people can't drive a mile without breaking a moving or equipment law. When you are stopped and the Officer asks for your license, insurance, and registration.... give it to them immediately. In Illinois failure to do so will result in arrest for disobeying a police officer. After giving the information to the officer then ask what you did wrong if they haven't already informed you. I would have no reason to bother you.

RMThompson
The definition for disorderly conduct in Illinois is different:
(720 ILCS 5/26‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 26‑1)
Sec. 26‑1. Elements of the Offense.
(a) A person commits disorderly conduct when he knowingly:
(1) Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to
alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace; or

Question, If someone drove to your residence and stood on the street which happens to be public property most of the time and took pictures of your house from every angle you could imagine and then took pictures of your family while they were outside the home would that alarm you? Would you call the police? Should the police respond and ask the person what they may be up to and attempt to identify them? Or would you let it go as a photographer taking advantage of their right to photograph anything they want from public property? Maybe that guy has a criminal history a mile long and is just checking out your house for his next burglary or worse.

Most officer's will not bother you unless we receive a complaint at that time we have to act. After we find out you have no bad intentions you will be on your way.

RMThompson
I'm sorry that your experience with the police has been 50/50 as you put it but I assure you most of us are fair and reasonable individuals. Today that is hard to believe because the media rarely shows the good stuff cops do.

 

[D40]

First day with my new camera I had a security officer tell me to stop taking pictures at a nice public outdoor shopping center. He told me that it was private property and I was not allowed to take pictures. I read on it and it sounds like he was wrong. Yes it was private property but if the public is allowed free entrence and can come and go as they please then you can take photos there as well. Anyway, instead of getting arrested I went ahead and left.

 

[ADELICATEIMAGE]

Thanks Skates,

One Other Question. I Was Stuck In Traffic For 1hr. I Pulled Over After The Accident Site, I Was Standing 1000 ft Away. using A 300mm lens Getting A Few Photos Of A SUV On Its Side. I Want To Build A Small Portfolio, Hoping To Get a freelance position down the road with statewide paper. I Shoot 15-20 photos, A state trooper say me after 10 mins. walked over and asked who i was shooting for. I Would have been very proud if i could have said so and so. instead i said a blog on auto safety. His Reply " NEGATIVE". Than I Left. Do you have any advice? 1000mm? lol :hail: :greenpbl:

Guys,

I'm sorry I didn't keep an eye on this post and it is a great post but between the kid's and a couple of jobs my time here was limited.... I hope that's changing.

If you still check this post here are some answers to your questions:

ADELICATEIMAGE
I can't speak for other states but in Illinois you can take all the pictures you want of police cruisers, officers, and the like. Your post says that you drove away and ultimately got pulled over. We need probable cause to make a traffic stop but that being said most people can't drive a mile without breaking a moving or equipment law. When you are stopped and the Officer asks for your license, insurance, and registration.... give it to them immediately. In Illinois failure to do so will result in arrest for disobeying a police officer. After giving the information to the officer then ask what you did wrong if they haven't already informed you. I would have no reason to bother you.

RMThompson
The definition for disorderly conduct in Illinois is different:
(720 ILCS 5/26‑1) (from Ch. 38, par. 26‑1)
Sec. 26‑1. Elements of the Offense.
(a) A person commits disorderly conduct when he knowingly:
(1) Does any act in such unreasonable manner as to
alarm or disturb another and to provoke a breach of the peace; or

Question, If someone drove to your residence and stood on the street which happens to be public property most of the time and took pictures of your house from every angle you could imagine and then took pictures of your family while they were outside the home would that alram you? Would you call the police? Should the police respond and ask the person what they may be up to and attempt to identify them? Or would you let it go as a photographer taking advantage of their right to photograph anything they want from public property? Maybe that guy has a criminal history a mile long and is just checking out your house for his next burglary or worse.

Most officer's will not bother you unless we receive a complaint at that time we have to act. After we find out you have no bad intentions you will be on your way.

RMThompson
I'm sorry that your experience with the police has been 50/50 as you put it but I assure you most of us are fair and reasonable individuals. Today that is hard to believe because the media rarely shows the good stuff cops do.

 

[Snyder]

When it come to photography you HAVE TO PUSH THE ENVOLOPE to get the shot, or your just wasting your time. Sometime you have to take risks. Back when I was in tech school for photography we had a photo assignment in washington D.C. about three of us was taking photos around the capital and some cops where setting up a road block so we start taking some photos. One cops come over and asks why are we taking photos and we tell him we are photographers. He ask for some ID I show him my ID and he leaves. Though I have certain clearence where normal photographer cant go or take photos.

 

[RyanLilly]

My brother did ask for his camera back but unfortunatly no could explain where it was.

Probably on ebay.

Not sure about the UK, but here in the US its directly in the constitution, government may not deprive people of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law.

Basically cop cant just take your stuff because they feel like it.

The only thing a cop has said to me is when I was shooting in a busy area was,

"hey keep that camera close to you body; otherwise someone could just run down the street and snatch its out of your hand"

I think most people run into problems with private security who are not trained properly.

 

[Seefutlung]

I actually got my hands on a Press Pass for my towns newspaper. I have not had the chance to use it yet, But i am sure i will get a little more slack from and police/security.

I was actually at a farm the other day, that had no no trespassing signs. The farm was abandoned, and right behind it there was a huge quarry. Turns out the farm was owned by the company who owned the quarry. A guy came by and told me if I did'nt leave I would be arrested. So I left. Cannot wait to use my Press Pass. :thumbup:

A Press Pass does not allow you to trespass. There are many types of press passes. A press pass issued by your company/newspaper is nothing more than a photo business card worn around your neck. Some/many may be easily impressed by this business card, in which case you can bamboozel you way into places where normally police/security will keep you out.

A press pass issued by a government agency is an official credential which allows you to cross over police lines, but isn't good at events.

Event passes are issued by the venue or the promotors/producers of the event and are issued on a per event basis.

There may be exceptions to the above, but generally that is how it works.

Gary

 

[RMThompson]

Just out of pure curiosity, how and when does the government issue these behind-police-lines press passes? Part of me wants to believe that a free society and that any photographer with the interest of covering a news event can have the right to achieve this, but we all know that's not true.

 

[DPW2007]

I will definitely be looking at my legal rights when taking photography. Many a time, I have been asked to leave 'public' property (like around the London Eye and Westminster Bank) because I have been taking photos with a tripod and camera, or delete my images and stop taking photographs.

It's probably down to money and greed and God knows where these security guards come from. I'll argue my case more next time for sure if I am within my rights.

David

 

[Seefutlung]

I know this sounds old fashion, but I have found if you take the time and trouble to ask permisson most with go way out of their way to help you get what you want....
Cosmo

Didn't work with my last girlfriend.

 

[Seefutlung]

I will definitely be looking at my legal rights when taking photography. Many a time, I have been asked to leave 'public' property (like around the London Eye and Westminster Bank) because I have been taking photos with a tripod and camera, or delete my images and stop taking photographs.

It's probably down to money and greed and God knows where these security guards come from. I'll argue my case more next time for sure if I am within my rights.

David

In the US, the authorities usually frown upon tripods in heavily trafficated public areas as this may contribute to accidents. I suspect other states have similar concerns.

Most western nations all subscribe to similar policies on copyright and ownership of images. In most countries deletion of your images and messing with your equipment is not within the jurisidictional power of said authorities.

 

[usayit]

Be fortunate that your experience has been mostly good officers, mine is closer to 50/50!

Just wanted to say to the law enforcement officers in this thread.. you all sound like reasonable people giving us good input. Thanks...

Unfortunately, my experience with police officers in my area is more like 10/90. I can't remember one time that I had a personal encounter with a police officer that represented the uniform without coming off as a bully with a badge. There was one time that my father visiting from out of town was lost trying to find my home. He lead my father to my house and greeted me with a smile... That was the 1 good experience and he was a police officer in my local town.

In regards to taking photos... I've been harrassed many times. Usually they are not interested in any explaination or discussion about the issue. So I usually keep my mouth shut and do whatever they ask. yes.. sad... sucks... what a state have we become!

BTW.. a Disorderly Conduct charge is employed very loosely around here. Pretty much a catch all that police officers use to make it really inconvenient for you. Yes.. 9/10 it won't stick but only after you have been held for several hours. My professor in photography mentioned that this did happen to a student taking photos at a playground... student released once the teacher vouched for his intentions but left without his negatives.

 

[Alex_B]

I have been asked to erase images by security guards already. i refused to do so which lead to some discussions, but nothing more.

 

[Seefutlung]

Just out of pure curiosity, how and when does the government issue these behind-police-lines press passes? Part of me wants to believe that a free society and that any photographer with the interest of covering a news event can have the right to achieve this, but we all know that's not true.

I only have first hand knowledge of how the system works here in California, so I cannot speak for other states. The California Highway Patrol issues a state-wide press pass to members of the "working press" which is accepted by all police agencies in California (and other states as well). The applicant must submit "tear sheets" of their published work along with a letter from an editor endorsing the application. After a background check an official government press/media credential will be forwarded to the media group sponsoring the individual for a pass. CHP Passes are issued on an as-needed/as-applied for basis.

Passes are limited in this society because of liability and limited space for access. A press pass also informs the police that the individual assumes all liability that is associated with crossing a police line. If anybody with a camera is allowed to cross a police line I suspect that their would be more people inside the line than outside the line getting in the way of first responders reacting to the call. So by limiting access to those that have the greatest opportunity of reaching the most people ... authorities have retained control of the scene/situation while still perserving the public's right to know.

Additionally, a press pass also assumes that the holder of such a pass has the experience and professionalism not to be a problem while performing their duties inside the police line.

Gary

PS- There are also a Federal media pass for shooting the prez. Similar process as the state pass but you also have to take a trip down to the FBI for fingerprinting and photos.
G