Used equipment for beginners?

Discussion in 'Photography Beginners' Forum' started by Shutterdog, Oct 6, 2017.

  1. dxqcanada

    dxqcanada Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    The Sony A200 is wayyyy too old tech to be worth picking up. If you are aiming towards lower costs in used product then I say stick to Nikon as there is soooo much stuff available for fair pricing. It is harder to get cheap Minolta/Sony lenses (trust me, I've been/am there) ... Sony has some great stuff if you have $$.


     
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  2. dxqcanada

    dxqcanada Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    ... though, there is a Sony SLT-A58 with kit lens listed on eBay (from a Canadian seller) that is at a pretty good buy now price. That model is not bad ... I had the SLT-A55 and 57.
     
  3. waday

    waday Do one thing every day that scares you Supporting Member

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    OP, if you start looking at Sony, check which ones have EVF vs OVF. You said you want OVF.
     
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  4. dxqcanada

    dxqcanada Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Ah, yeah I forgot to mention that point (that Wade brought up) ... A58 is EVF ... if you want to know about it just ask me as I have been using EVF cameras for some time now.
     
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  5. fmw

    fmw No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    Derrell, I can't help but say that your reaction makes you look fearful of mirrorless cameras. Didn't you use cameras easily prior to the advent of autofocus? I did. I have a manual lens in my mirrorless system and have no problem using it. Beagle isn't lying. He is expressing opinions that differ from yours. Personally, I won't go back to DSLR's after having my mirrorless system.

    Since you don't like mirrorless cameras, don't buy them. But don't criticize people who prefer them to DSLR's.
     
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  6. fmw

    fmw No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    I'm not trying to corrupt your preference for optical finders. But at least you should know that electronic finders have at least one benefit that I consider valuable. They can display what your image will look like at whatever exposure settings you or or meter have set. If it is a little dark, you can dial in some compensation or other setting and see the effect of the change in real time.
     
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  7. Shutterdog

    Shutterdog TPF Noob!

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    Thanks a lot, there's a lot of information in that post.
     
  8. Shutterdog

    Shutterdog TPF Noob!

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    That is a good point. Don't you get live numeric view even when you have the optical viewfinder?

    I really like to look trough the viewfinder to take the shot.
     
  9. dxqcanada

    dxqcanada Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    What do you mean by "numeric view" ?
     
  10. Shutterdog

    Shutterdog TPF Noob!

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    Can't you have the equivalent of a viewfinder, live view, on the screen?
     
  11. dxqcanada

    dxqcanada Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    EVF, is a live view though the viewfinder instead of just the rear LCD ... with an OVF it will indicate what the meter reading is ... but you need to mentally interpret what that means as opposed to visually seeing it.
     
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  12. Solarflare

    Solarflare No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    OVF vs EVF : Fun fact: they dont actually show up in your final picture. Thus yeah, how important is that choice anyway ? IMHO much less important than for example lens quality.

    And both work fine, in general. Neither has a clear advantage over the other. So its really just a question of personal preference. Personally I probably lean more towards OVF, but I could work with both, really.


    I like that OVFs require no current and put no stress on the main camera sensor, I like they dont blind you in low light, dont ever have any lag, dont have issues in artificial light, and dont have other such issues. Overall I find them much more natural to work with and I read from people in internet forums that they find EVFs outright intolerable.

    I also like that if you have an OVF, you have an EVF anyway - the backside monitor in lifeview. All you would need is getting a protection so bright sunlight doesnt block the view. Unfortunately all the possible goodies found in EVFs that I would like to have usually dont show up in these backside monitors, except for magnification, and at least on Nikon cameras choosing the AF point in lifeview is extremely slow. At least the brand new D850 has now both touch screen and focus peaking, though not with 4K video for which it would actually be extremely important.


    Because I definitely like that EVFs can have secondary functionality like focus peaking. Also magnification, zebras, false colors, life histogram etc. Very useful indeed. Unfortunately how much you actually get with an EVF and how easy it is to access etc depends upon the camera.

    I also definitely like that EVFs allow shorter flange distances in comparison to SLRs. In theory this allows simpler wide angle lenses. However apparently all companies except Leica with their Leica M havent bothered to design their sensors in a way to allow sensors steep angles of incidence with the light in the first place. But without this property the shorter flange distance doesnt make much of a difference - you still have to design wide angle lenses as retrofocus designs, just as with a SLR. Also the issue is that straightforward wide angle lenses, i.e. those without retrofocus, dont allow larger apertures - in fact the geometrically possible maximum aperture goes down very quickly if the wide angle lens isnt retrofocus. Thus yeah the effect is nice to have but it doesnt matter that much.

    EVFs also can be large and bright even for small sensor cameras, but I dont care about small sensor cameras, so I dont care about that aspect. Plus how much of that potential is actually realized is always another question, anyway.

    They allow you to see a wrong white balance instantly, but I always shoot RAW, so meh. Also with a Nikon auto white balance its extremely rare I see any issues with the default choices of the camera anyway.

    And right now even the best EVF, like in the X-T2, still have visible lag, even in bright sunlight - which I find quite irritating, especially since the advertisements claimed otherwise.

    Finally, unlike some people apparently think, they certainly dont offer WYSIWYG. The backside monitor doesnt give you WYSIWYG and neither does an EVF. All an EVF really is is a backside monitor with some additional optics really, so nothing a backside monitor cant is doable by an EVF.


    I find the prime aspect of any camera system I always care about is image quality; for example I tolerate manual focus lenses (Zeiss, Voigtländer, old Nikkor AI/AI-S) due to the fact they offer more image quality than any autofocus lenses. So I might lean more towards OVFs overall, but I would instantly work with EVF if said system would offer more image quality.
     
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