what camera to buy (beginner)

Yellowjeep... you suggest I get a film camera from the W's?? like... W's? Lil. I don't get it. Also, how is a camera plus 9 lenses only like bucks. I guess I just fail to understand. If you could verify, that would be great. Thanks...

Oh, and I just plan on taking any type of shots. People, scenery, close up, far away, nothing in particular. I think it would be really cool to capture movement (like a car passing by in 5 shots... stuff like that) Taking good quality pictures (close up or far away) as fast as I can press the button.


Hey, Yes the camera outfit I have was $80 total. To alot of people (passerby for instance) film is archaic you will hear the term "film is dead" if you stick around long enough. This type of thinking can lead to some very nice deals on older cameras.

For some of the stuff that you are suggesting you would like to shoot you aren't going to be happy with a full manual camera like some have recommended. Like Early said you are looking at alot more modern equipment. But that doesn't necessarily have to be expensive either. To add to Early's list I though I'd add what I am familiar with. My Minolta 700si is auto focus, 1/8000 max shutter speed and has a 3fps (frames per second. What you need to "capture motion" the way you stated) motor ect. Cost me $60 shipped (no lens, ebay) when it was new it was around 700 bucks IRC. There just isn't a huge market for pro level film SLRs anymore. Just look around on ebay and you will see what I (we) mean.


Early did put a good list together, my working knowledge is limited compared to his.
 
One other thing, for terms you don't understand (fps, f stop, aperture, ect) www.photonotes.com has an extensive dictionary of terms. I learned alot by just hitting the random term button over and over.

For camera models that you are unfarmiliar with www.camerapedia.org is a good place to find info on most of the models mentioned so far.
 
To Overread:

1) correct... for everything (camera, lenses, motor?, etc) nothing over $400. around $200 or less would be great.

2) No, I am no set on film, cameras. But what I was gathering from previous information is that digital isn't (without exceeding my limit) capable of taking quick motion snapshots that are in absolute clear focus as well as the interchangeable lenses. So, as I had put the pieces together from what I heard, I figured film (35mm) is the best way to go for great looking photos for cheap (less than $400 for equipment). Plus, I just like the idea of using film and producing some good clear quick shooting photos.... you know, take a little pride in your work. (by the way, if I'm wrong in my assumptions, PLEASE let me know, I just don't think digital is capable of these tasks without spending large amounts of moolah...)

3) I'm not set on any particular thing. But I suppose some examples could help. Honestly, I enjoy taking pictures up close (sometimes) and also of landscapes and such, as well as things like trains/tracks. I think the whole deal where the camera is focused on one particular thing/person and everything else is almost a blur is pretty cool.... just some examples. And I don't expect to get a camera to do all of that, it can be weak in some areas. Heck, I'll buy another one later with a different perk if I need/want.



To Early

I'll keep those models and such in mind, I appreciate it. Though, I gotta ask, what are the (dis)advantages of manual vs. auto focus??? 3 frames a second is perfectly fine. I don't think I'll be taking pictures of very many speeding bullets, so I'll be good with that. Also, the motor drives, you guys talk about them as though they come separate or you can just switch them out. Is it just that easy?

To Smith2688

So the Pentax K-mount is just a good base of a camera? what exactly is the base? basically a camera without a flash or lens (I would think)? And how can you tell what lenses are able to fit what cameras? are most camera bases fitting with most lenses, no matter what year the base is (like if I were to get a 70's-ish model camera like YellowJeep suggested)?

To Yellowjeep

For starters, what is the difference in shutter speed (1/8000) and the motor (3fps). Do they both just play a different role in the quickness of the snapshots? And just to clarify... you bought a Minolta 700si with a 3fps motor for $60(shipping included)??? And that's a 'pro level SLR'??? To me, that just seems insane if it's a good camera. What's the catch???

Honestly, I really do appreciate all the responses, as I'm learned a bit about what I'm getting myself in to. Thanks guys, and I hope you can continue to answer my NOOB questions. Thanks x4
 
Also, when looking at lenses, what should I be looking for. Actually, could someone give me a quick run through of what they are? Like, I see on on ebay like "camera blah blah with '28-80mm lens'"........ and "camera blah blah blah blah 35-80mm zoom lens s" any help on these things?

Thanks once again... you guys are great, and much needed, help.
 
I will take a few of these and I am sure others will chime in.

When Smith said base, he meant a good foundation or starting point to learn with. With SLRs there is the "Body" (what you were talking about) Then you have lenses. And then all sort of accessories that go on from there. But in the very simplest terms: to have an SLR camera capable of producing and image you need a body and a lens. This is why he recommend the K mount system; body and lenses are plentiful and cheap.

Motors drives.
PhotoNotes.org said:
A feature of most SLR cameras these days - an internal electric motor which automatically advances the film to the next frame upon completion of an exposure. A motor-drive camera usually cannot be wound manually.

Older manual-wind SLRs could often be equipped with external power winders, which do basically the same thing.


CalebGGodwin said:
To Yellowjeep

For starters, what is the difference in shutter speed (1/8000) and the motor (3fps). Do they both just play a different role in the quickness of the snapshots? And just to clarify... you bought a Minolta 700si with a 3fps motor for $60(shipping included)??? And that's a 'pro level SLR'??? To me, that just seems insane if it's a good camera. What's the catch???

Basically shutter speed one of the factors that determines correct exposure, along with aperture and film speed.

Quick and dirty version:

Shutter speed. Time film is exposed to light.

Aperture. Determines amount of light that the lens allows to reach the film. Higher number number= less light.

Film speed (ISO). The films sensitivity to light. Higher ISO number + "faster" more sensitive film meaning it doesn't need as much light to create an image.


FPS determines how fast you can take sequential photos. It is how may frames the motor can move in a second.

As far as my 700si goes. Here are some reviews (keep in mind the dates relative to the prices. The 700si was introduced in '93 if i remember right.)http://www.camerareview.com/templates/reviews.cfm?camera_id=116

Pro level maybe a slight over statement, top of the consumer range is probably more accurate. My Sony DSLR is a descendent of the Minolta Maxxum line. It has the same lens mount so it was a logical choice for a AF 35mm SLR.


Like I said before, there is a very low demand for film cameras anymore. All of the "serious" people have "upgraded" to digital. Thats fine with me let them sell there equipment to me for pennies on the dollar, I really don't mind.
 
Caleb, if you are new to photography, have a look at the links in my signature. They'll give you the basics about photography.
 
Wow, those people writing the reviews in Yellowjeep's link have been using that camera for years... some 6-8. That's crazy.

Tiberius47 - I'll glance at your signature links for a bit, and will definitely give them a thorough look at once I actually get a camera and such, I'm sure they're helpful.

Question (anyone) - manual focus vs. auto focus. What are the (dis)advantages of both? and do cameras come with the option to have both? Is choosing one over the other really a big deal? or is it just preference?

Thanks you guys.
 
I don't know about the older film cameras (only a digital user myself) but mostly all modern cameras have autofocusing as an option along side manual focusing. The older film though were all manual focusing (though I can't say at what age or which models autofocusing came in or if the early autofocusing methods were worth switching to)

As for the advantages, well auto focusing is often far quicker than manual focusing (especially when you are just starting out) and its very good for tracking moving targets such as sports or birds or planes where manually it would be much harder. However autofocusing even today is not always perfect which is where manual comes into its element. A good manual focus can in many cases be much sharper than an autofocus and you also have the advantage that you can get what you want in the shot in focus rather than what the camera thinks you should have.
In the modern (again I don't know about older kit) cameras you can select which sensors to use or let the camera autodetect which ones - often the center focus is used as that is what the camera is aimed at, but there are times when its better or desirable to use the other elements (though it should be noted that the center sensor is often the best in the camera)

Also a short word of advice - its all confusing at the start, but I would read the beginners stuff even before I got the camera. It gives you an idea of what different things are and when people compare different cameas based on capacity you will be in a better position to understand what they are comparing and also what (if any) special requirements you have are going to need in a camera
 
Thanks Overread, that's about what I was getting out of the manual vs. auto focus.

If it's not too difficult, you guys who have been posting on my thread (yellowjeep, overread, early, smith, tiberius) and anyone else who has read kinda what I'm looking for.... could you guys just type in what YOU would get in my situation? Base, lens, etc (because I don't know what else is involved), and a little reason as to why you would get that one. If you want to put a few down, cool. I would just like to research a few preferred cameras. Again, keeping the price low-ish, and older models.

Thanks.
 
Also, when looking at lenses, what should I be looking for. Actually, could someone give me a quick run through of what they are? Like, I see on on ebay like "camera blah blah with '28-80mm lens'"........ and "camera blah blah blah blah 35-80mm zoom lens s" any help on these things?

Thanks once again... you guys are great, and much needed, help.

The biggest thing with lenses that you should be looking for right now is the mount, all the technical information can wait, if you buy a lens that does not fit your camera you are flat out screwed, honestly.

Once you decide on a body, (the camera it self) find out it's make and mount, Make id usuallu is huge text on the camera someplace, that part is simple. the lens mount it used is slightly harder to find, you will need to have one of two things, a lens on it alredy or the owners manual. If you don't get a manual when you buy the camera, you can usually down load them if you need to, if you can't find one just let us know, some one is bount to know of a place or two. If you do get a lens for it with the body, the mount is usually on the inner ring of the front of the lens shown here.

For example below you will see a Canon AE-1 camera body
100_2904.jpg

Note the FD on the inner ring

Below you will see a Canon EOS rebel
10079367.jpg

Note the EF-S on the inner ring

One uses the Canon FD mount lens and the other uses the Canon EF mount lens. Despite being made by the came manufacturer the lenses are not interchangeable for the most part. FD lenses can be used on newer EF mount bodies with adapters but I know of no such adapter for the reverse, but that is beyond basics and not to be worried about at the moment.

Make sure you know the lens mount before anything else. the rest will come as you go


however this generally applies only to lenses made by the camera manufacturer from my experiance. I have not to this day seen a third party lens with the mount information on it.

Wow, those people writing the reviews in Yellowjeep's link have been using that camera for years... some 6-8. That's crazy.

Tiberius47 - I'll glance at your signature links for a bit, and will definitely give them a thorough look at once I actually get a camera and such, I'm sure they're helpful.

Question (anyone) - manual focus vs. auto focus. What are the (dis)advantages of both? and do cameras come with the option to have both? Is choosing one over the other really a big deal? or is it just preference?

Thanks you guys.

I use Manual Focus almost exclusively, I find I don't have issues with subject searching. Manual Focus is also a necessity for very lowlight situations such as night shooting and the like, Even Modern AF can not function properly in the dark.

Manual focus is considerably harder to learn and use than Auto focus but I find the results far more consistant because I have complete control.
 
Well if you are after film I can't comment as I have no understanding of it - also being in the UK I have no idea about US prices or what is a good or bad deal.
One thing I can say though is that if you are intending of going on e-bay always make sure that you deal with people with over several 1000 sales and with a rating of 98% ish = that way you a minimalising your chances of a bad product or dodgy deal. Also check the dealers location, there are many camera dealers based in Hong Kong which sell very cheaply, but you can get caught with having to pay import tax (then things are not so cheap anymore).
 
Thanks Overread, that's about what I was getting out of the manual vs. auto focus.

If it's not too difficult, you guys who have been posting on my thread (yellowjeep, overread, early, smith, tiberius) and anyone else who has read kinda what I'm looking for.... could you guys just type in what YOU would get in my situation? Base, lens, etc (because I don't know what else is involved), and a little reason as to why you would get that one. If you want to put a few down, cool. I would just like to research a few preferred cameras. Again, keeping the price low-ish, and older models.

Thanks.

If you are willing to learn manual focus, the Canon AE-1 is a deisent starting point, it's not my personal preference but it's inexpencive, it can be bought on E-bay for anywhere from $20 to $100 (USD) and lenses are also inexpencive.

If you want Auto focus an EOS rebel should do fine....I have no exoperiance with modern film cameras but I figure it is a safe bet that the last Generation of film cameras will suffice. they range anywhere from $200 to $400 (USD) but lenses are going to cost a fortune.




and please read this thread
 
Being a Sony/Minolta guy I am going to say something from the Maxxum line and since my experience is limited to the 700si I'd say look for that or the 800si if you can find one. The drawback to the Minolta's is that they lack a lot of aftermarket support.

Here is a similar camera to the 700si, its newer. This is also a pretty ok lens.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Near-Mint-Minol...ryZ43493QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I would possibly look in to a Canon or Nikon, if for nothing else but wider support, but somebody else is going to have to give specifics. Looks like somebody already did.
 
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YellowJeep... I was looking at that camera link you gave me on ebay. From what I read (and what very little I know) I really like it. Though, one thing caught my attention... "All AF SLR cameras experience a minute delay when taking pictures because the mirror must be lifted out of the optical path" now... does that mean minute as in '60 seconds' or minute as in 'very small'. Probably the latter, but heck, I don't know, lol.

Also, does that camera have an option to use manual focus? How could I tell. Another also... which part makes it a manual/auto focus? is it the lens, or the base???

Ohh, and another thing I want a camera like this for is to take pictures at my friend's shows (he's in a band). I think it'd be awesome to have some high quality shots of that kind of thing.

Here's another question, simple for you guys I'm sure... when it comes to film cameras, how do you keep the great quality and put them onto the computer? is that part of the development stage in which you can have them put onto a disc? And what company/store is good for doing that sort of thing (developing film)???


Edit----------------

By the way. Battou, I really appreciate your response, it was helpful... much. Thanks.
 
I think all SLR cameras offer manual focus as a feature.
As for the time dely its not anything like a minute, mostly a second in time, but when you are dealing with fast shots this can be all the difference. There is a method called mirror lock-up which locks the mirror up and that removes this waiting time (something I have not tried) and it also can reduce camera shake as well - so you can get sharper shots.
Further I think all SLRs offer manual focus as a standard - more common is that some lenses won't offer autofocus in some cases, but manual is a standard.
As for hte band, considering that gigs and such are often dark places you will be after a "fast" lens - a quick read of another thread on this site (can't remember where) and someone stated that an f2.8 would be the ideal fast lens for poor lighting. Also most performances won't let photographers use flash either.
Also just a caution - remember that before one can get wonderful shots one must practice first - lots - so when you get your camera (whatever it is) get out and shoot with it and get comments on the results (forums are a good place as you get more of a chance of a good review - friends can sometimes be a little too nice at times;))
 

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