What is with all these beginners with $1000+ cameras?

[WayneS]

I believe it's all relative to what you can afford and are willing to spend. I didn't buy a professional model. I bought a Nikon D40X which I'm very happy with. I've used many P&S's and felt it was time to move up considering I had started in the photography hobby many years ago. All in all, I probably have around $1500 invested in it so far and am still going. Later on, if I'm still going strong, I'll probably upgrade.

Not quite understanding why the question though. Why else do people get into hobbies? (that is, those of us that take pictures for a hobby and not work). It's something to do in our spare time and is enjoyable. You could spend years psychoanalyzing why people spend money and time on hobbies, but when it comes down to it, it's just human nature.

Btw, I also use my wife for the artistic side of her view. :blushing:

 

[Socrates]

...the idea of tag-team photography is kinda cute.

Well, it took a while but we kinda grew on each other.

 

[Socrates]

Why else do people get into hobbies? (that is, those of us that take pictures for a hobby and not work).

I'm glad that you used the hobby reference. It doesn't matter how good you are but, if you take a hobby serious, it doesn't matter what it is, it will cost you a bundle. Talk to any golfer or hunter or fisherman or stamp collector or whatever. A hobby is your relaxation and what's that worth to you (relative to what you can afford)?

 

[Tennessee Landscape]

Why do people buy sports cars that will go over twice the speed limit?

Anyway, I have a couple other hobbies that I'm very tallented at and can use the full pontential of the high dollar gear ( which I own by the way ). Therefore I know what you get out of the good stuff as opposed to the entry level stuff. I want to get the full potential out of myself now, and still have room to grow into my $1800 worth of camera gear.

 

[JIP]

If I tried to answer all the posts that needed to be responded to it would take all day so I will leave it at this: relax people there is no qulification or test to buy high-end gear so buy what you want and let others do the same and keep your nose in your own business.

 

[Mystwalker]

Oh yes it can. What it does is distract the learning photographer from the core fundamentals. This is the same old reason why past photography professors preferred students to use cameras that were fully manual without the temptation of AF and auto-metering (Pentax K1000 for example).

You are assuming the newb want to "learn photography".

But many newbs just want to take good pictures - they equate more pixels to better product. Sales people at Best Buy and Frys also like to point to 'increased pixels'.

When my wife wanted a "better camera", if she had seen pictures from you guys here ... she would have bought the 5D with whatever lens you guys used for that incredible picture. I'm sure the 5D with the 24-70 f/2.8L will take better pictures then the SD800IS which I gave her - even in green box mode mode .

That is $2500 in hands of a newb who will never have it off green box, will constantly complain about having to look through eyepiece, but will be perfectly happy because the camera allows her to take pictures of daughter running around in low light.

I equate original question to me seeing someone with an EXPENSIVE hand bag - I'm talking $10K for a dinky, furry bag. Who am I to question them now? I spent over 2K on medal tubes with glass inside :mrgreen:.

 

[Dubious Drewski]

relax people there is no qulification or test to buy high-end gear so buy what you want and let others do the same and keep your nose in your own business.

Being a bit of a pacifist, I want to agree, but I don't. If everyone minds their own business, then there's no conflict, and interesting threads such as this one would never be born.

I say "keep it up, guys! You're doing a splendid job entertaining me and helping me procrastinate!"

 

[Antithesis]

Tell me then, why you pay more for a branded item, versus a generic one?

I'm not sure that applies when discussing camera gear quite as much as something like clothing or graphic t-shirts.

There are people out there that are 'fanboys', but for the most part, buying a bigger brand in the photography world can equate to more compatible lenses and such. For example, the third party brands often don't make lenses for Pentax's or Olympus, or atleast not for a bit of time after the Nikon and Canon stuff comes out.

Also, the phenomena of spending rediculous amounts of money on a hobby is not limited to photography. I used to mod cars and I probably spent well over $10k in parts for my WRX, and I have a friend that dropped about $90k into an STi (making it one of the faster street-driven ones on the west coast). I realize now how rediculous of a waste of money it is, but at the time, it was my hobby and I was willing to spend the money.

 

[Mystwalker]

I have a friend that dropped about $90k into an STi (making it one of the faster street-driven ones on the west coast

Geez!! Wouldn't a Porsche be more impressive? Or even one of those big Benz - that always says "MONEY".

At least with expensive "L" lens, everyone knows it when they see it - BIG UGLY WHITE lens.

 

[bhop]

Geez!! Wouldn't a Porsche be more impressive? Or even one of those big Benz - that always says "MONEY".

I'd say that depends on who you'd be trying to impress.

 

[usayit]

There are two topics being discussed... these are two completely different topics.

The economics and business practices of selling/marketing (pushing) higher.. or needless expensive items to buyers. These include responses referring to "economics" the price of the goods and references to how it influences the market/future market.

The mind set from the consumer convinced that the better camera == better photos. These include posting regarding people's reasons for buying more expensive or stuck in a perpetual chasing of the latest-n-greatest. This includes internalized responses like "jealousy" and "envy"

 

[usayit]

You are assuming the newb want to "learn photography".

Of course that is my assumption.... why else would we even be discussing this topic otherwise. For what else reason why this topic would be on "thephotoforum"? Beginner = someone who strives to be a good photographer not just someone with a nice camera.

When my wife wanted a "better camera", if she had seen pictures from you guys here ... she would have bought the 5D with whatever lens you guys used for that incredible picture. I'm sure the 5D with the 24-70 f/2.8L will take better pictures then the SD800IS which I gave her - even in green box mode mode .

Actually the Canon 5D with the 24-70 f/2.8L is about the WORST camera for your wife.
1) The 5D is lacking any "creative" modes. It only has the "core" Manual, shutter, aperture, program modes. The lower end models would best suited for her as she can choose between portrait, landscape, action, etc.. and the camera will select the best shutter/aperture combinations given the selected mode. On the 5D, one would need at least the fundamentals in order to leverage the camera.
2) 5D+24-70L is a very heavy setup. For the typical snapshooter, a heavy camera will equate to one that is left at home often. This equates to a very bad investment and experience.
3) Try explaining to her why she'll spend more money on a zoom of 24-70 (pretty darn short) when a MUCH cheaper P&S will have an effective zoom range of around 24-200mm. Canon G9 for example is equivalent 35-210mm with a measly 6x zoom.
4) Try explaining to her why a 5D costing several times more than the Rebel 450D still has the same number of Megapixels. Try to explain to her that the 5D+24-70 is worth the premium cost over the G9.

I've been on the other side of the counter enough to know that I can easily sell a high end expensive DSLR+lens setup to a enthusiast beginner. However... a snapshooter (like your wife) is actually a tougher sell for the high-end expensive DSLR+lens. Why? because their intentions are different. One strives to be "just like the pros" the later just wants good pictures.

In other words....

I can hand your wife a Rebel or a G9 and I guarantee that she'll by far be happier with the resulting photos.

That is $2500 in hands of a newb who will never have it off green box, will constantly complain about having to look through eyepiece, but will be perfectly happy because the camera allows her to take pictures of daughter running around in low light.

Successfully shooting a camera in low-light means the person will have to have a basic understanding of:
* slowest shutterspeed he/she can handhold given their steady hand and focal length.
* How shooting a lens at wide open will result in a very shallow depth of field and how to work around it.
* how to leverage existing lighting.

A newb will be far more successful using standard camera+lens with the appropriate flashpack. Shoot in low light on full auto "green box" without flash.. it doesn't work very well. For starters, AF is more useable once a dedicated flash is attached and emits a focus assist "beam".

Buddy.. you just reinforced my statements in almost every way.

 

[usayit]

I'd say that depends on who you'd be trying to impress.

Well.. this is the KEY to the thread... at least in my opinion.

From where I sit... beginners who chase after the latest-n-greatest of the most expensive are just chasing what they see being marketing to them. They simply wanna be like the Professionals they see on TV.

This is the same reason why the WHITE/PUTTY lenses of Canon sell so well. This is the same reason why the red ring on the end of the L lenses do so well. This is the reason why the "Nikon" and "Canon" straps are worn. This is the reason why the Branding is in big white letters on the front of the cameras. This is the same reason why an equally capable camera under the name Pentax doesn't sell as well as Nikon or Canon. This is the reason why Leica shooters are better. Um..Ok.. the last one was a joke.

In the end... the market is driven by a population of posers. Which is just fine and dandy... but we wanted to discuss it here anyways.

 

[JIP]

Of course that is my assumption.... why else would we even be discussing this topic otherwise. For what else reason why this topic would be on "thephotoforum"? Beginner = someone who strives to be a good photographer not just someone with a nice camera.



Actually the Canon 5D with the 24-70 f/2.8L is about the WORST camera for your wife.
1) The 5D is lacking any "creative" modes. It only has the "core" Manual, shutter, aperture, program modes. The lower end models would best suited for her as she can choose between portrait, landscape, action, etc.. and the camera will select the best shutter/aperture combinations given the selected mode. On the 5D, one would need at least the fundamentals in order to leverage the camera.
2) 5D+24-70L is a very heavy setup. For the typical snapshooter, a heavy camera will equate to one that is left at home often. This equates to a very bad investment and experience.
3) Try explaining to her why she'll spend more money on a zoom of 24-70 (pretty darn short) when a MUCH cheaper P&S will have an effective zoom range of around 24-200mm. Canon G9 for example is equivalent 35-210mm with a measly 6x zoom.
4) Try explaining to her why a 5D costing several times more than the Rebel 450D still has the same number of Megapixels. Try to explain to her that the 5D+24-70 is worth the premium cost over the G9.

I've been on the other side of the counter enough to know that I can easily sell a high end expensive DSLR+lens setup to a enthusiast beginner. However... a snapshooter (like your wife) is actually a tougher sell for the high-end expensive DSLR+lens. Why? because their intentions are different. One strives to be "just like the pros" the later just wants good pictures.

In other words....

I can hand your wife a Rebel or a G9 and I guarantee that she'll by far be happier with the resulting photos.



Successfully shooting a camera in low-light means the person will have to have a basic understanding of:
* slowest shutterspeed he/she can handhold given their steady hand and focal length.
* How shooting a lens at wide open will result in a very shallow depth of field and how to work around it.
* how to leverage existing lighting.

A newb will be far more successful using standard camera+lens with the appropriate flashpack. Shoot in low light on full auto "green box" without flash.. it doesn't work very well. For starters, AF is more useable once a dedicated flash is attached and emits a focus assist "beam".

Buddy.. you just reinforced my statements in almost every way.

I am not exactly sure where you come off telling someone what is the best or worst camera for them. I like you used to be the guy on the other side of he counter and really hated to see the people who made it their purpose to tel people exactly what they needed. When I sold I guided people to things and gave them options but would never presume to know exactly wht thy NEEDED. And by the way telling someone a good flash is a better way to get a good image shows that you have a little to learn yourself.

 

[usayit]

Man, this is WAY off base. You can't compare the price of oil to the price of a camera any better than you can compare the price of an egg to the price of a Xbox 360.

One is technology that ages quickly and doens't maintain value and one is a necessity to daily life.

TheOtherBob: 1 CanAm: 0

Exactly why is this off base??? The point of a business is to sell a product for as much profit (higher prices) as possible without causing the market to fall out from underneath it.

If the consumers are willing to pay/go into debt, to buy all those cameras then yes... this can cause the price to rise (of course taking into consideration supply/demand). This is the same for eggs, Xboxes, and cameras. Now oil is a bit on different due to the regulations involved. "Necessity of daily life" type products are nothing special... they are just like any other product with the exception that regulations are often in place due to the fact that they are necessities (for example: you can't cut off someone's heat in the middle of winter).