A couple of questions regarding light, metering, and technicalities

OfMikeandMen · Mar 18, 2013

Hi,

I just finished "Understanding Exposure," and have started The Digital Photography book 1 from Kelby. I have a few questions, two of them are relatively related: I am confused with the metering section in "Understanding Exposure." That is, what Peterson calls, "Brother Sky." Are there are more in depth guides on how to accomplish a creatively correct exposure based on where you are metering? Following Peterson's advice, my photos always turn out too dark. The question that follows this is based on light. Are there any good guides on how to understand light, the best light to take photos in, etc.? And lastly, the technicalities. I am reading Kelby's book, but nearing half-way through, I see good advice, and have learned a lot. However, I prefer things to be a little more technical so that I understand what is going on. I plan on taking portraiture and wedding photos. I would like more info mainly on these two areas. I like natural light, but understand that sometimes this isn't possible with weddings. I like how artistic photos look for weddings that tend to be more popular these days. Not the basic formal photos and family photos (though I know this is part of it). Anyways, I was wondering if there are any good books for these topics. It seems a lot of books talk more on landscape, urban photography, etc. Which I love. I love night photography. However, I'm mostly interested in learning about portraiture and weddings. But, I feel severely under-educated at this point. So, any fundamentals will help. I've researched the threads on books to read, and the Cambridge website. I've also looked at the composition basics. I'm just trying to find something more suited to what I want to end up doing, and something that will really delve into the fundamentals. I'm really motivated to get these down. Any help would be great. Sorry for such a long post.

TCampbell · Mar 18, 2013

Peterson refers to the "Sky Brothers" ("Brother Blue Sky"", "Brother Backlit/Sunset Sky", and "Brother Dusky Blue Sky") for shots where a LOT of what you have in the exposure IS sky and you want it properly exposed.

Go to the companion video site at Understanding Exposure Tips from Bryan Peterson Have your book handy... there's no "license key" for the site, so instead he asks you a few questions along the lines of "Whats the 3rd word in the first sentence of chapter 5." (I made that up... that's not one of his actual questions, but they're along those lines.) After you answer a few, he links you to the real video site. He has a video that demonstrates the sunset shot and the dusky blue city-scape shot.

BTW, when Brian shoots the city-scapes at dusk, he also mentions that he prefers to use an FLW Magenta filter (FLW = Florescent Light Warm.)

Also, make sure you're clear on one point... when he meters off the sky, he always makes sure the Sun is NOT in the frame when he takes the meter reading (even if the sun will be in the sky in the actual photo you plan to take.)

For weddings, you REALLY need to learn to master lighting and, in particular, flash.

The best lit wedding photos you see... were probably taken with flash (even when it doesn't look like -- believe it or not.) Since you can't practically carry around studio lighting gear, you learn to make good light out of a few high quality flashes.

When I did weddings there were _always_ two flashes used in nearly every shot. The main flash and a side-light. The side-light creates shadow detail by coming from the side (a roughly 45/45 flash) and then the main lighting filled in the shadows so what you ended up with was gentle shadow instead of hash flash-shadow. We also carried a reflector and a shoot-through umbrella.

It's also pretty important to learn modeling. A good photographer knows how to direct the subject (Who, in the case of weddings, is not a professional model and has no experience. That just means the photographer has to be that much better.) You need outstanding communication skills. Learning to give good non-ambiguous / CLEAR directions and yet coming across well is a big part of it.

OfMikeandMen · Mar 18, 2013

TCampbell said:
Peterson refers to the "Sky Brothers" ("Brother Blue Sky"", "Brother Backlit/Sunset Sky", and "Brother Dusky Blue Sky") for shots where a LOT of what you have in the exposure IS sky and you want it properly exposed.

Go to the companion video site at Understanding Exposure Tips from Bryan Peterson Have your book handy... there's no "license key" for the site, so instead he asks you a few questions along the lines of "Whats the 3rd word in the first sentence of chapter 5." (I made that up... that's not one of his actual questions, but they're along those lines.) After you answer a few, he links you to the real video site. He has a video that demonstrates the sunset shot and the dusky blue city-scape shot.

BTW, when Brian shoots the city-scapes at dusk, he also mentions that he prefers to use an FLW Magenta filter (FLW = Florescent Light Warm.)

Also, make sure you're clear on one point... when he meters off the sky, he always makes sure the Sun is NOT in the frame when he takes the meter reading (even if the sun will be in the sky in the actual photo you plan to take.)

For weddings, you REALLY need to learn to master lighting and, in particular, flash.

The best lit wedding photos you see... were probably taken with flash (even when it doesn't look like -- believe it or not.) Since you can't practically carry around studio lighting gear, you learn to make good light out of a few high quality flashes.

When I did weddings there were _always_ two flashes used in nearly every shot. The main flash and a side-light. The side-light creates shadow detail by coming from the side (a roughly 45/45 flash) and then the main lighting filled in the shadows so what you ended up with was gentle shadow instead of hash flash-shadow. We also carried a reflector and a shoot-through umbrella.

It's also pretty important to learn modeling. A good photographer knows how to direct the subject (Who, in the case of weddings, is not a professional model and has no experience. That just means the photographer has to be that much better.) You need outstanding communication skills. Learning to give good non-ambiguous / CLEAR directions and yet coming across well is a big part of it.

Okay, that makes metering make more sense. I was measuring the light based off the sky, but then I would recompose to a shot that didn't have a lot of light in it. However, when I measured off green, like the grass, or a tree, the exposure was turning out perfect in terms of contrast, brightness, and color (it was a little off because of my white balance being set to cloudy).

Do you have any suggestions of where to move from here? Bryan Peterson's book was literally my first photography book read. I want to move into the direction of wedding and portraiture, but don't know what else I should focus on as far as books, webinars, etc. I've used some of the references here, but am really indecisive and/or confused about where I should continue on to. Perhaps something else to deal with exposure, or lighting, etc., since that seems paramount to wedding photography (I guess, technically, all photography).

Scott Kelby just seems a little broad for me to really master anything. I think he is good for an overview of photography, which is why I will continue with his books, but I already have a particular field I'd like to master. I don't really care to be a novice jack of all trades at this point. Eventually, sure, I'd like to move to landscape, urban, etc. but I'm really interested in portraiture/wedding. I've learned somethings from reading his book, but it seems less, I don't know. I just feel something is missing and I don't seem to be getting much out of it.

His book seems more full of reminders or cool ideas, rather than actually about learning photography. I think if I were to compare it, it would be like buying one of those kid's magic sets. Where it has some cool tricks in it, but you don't really learn the magic tricks. You just have some self-working gimmicks. I feel like I'm learning some cool tricks, but I'm not learning how the camera works, or how to operate under various environments etc. It seems very self-working.

I really appreciate the feedback.

hirejn · Mar 18, 2013

You have to understand that the meter is telling you the exposure settings to render the subject middle gray, if you're using reflective metering. So if you meter off a bright cloud and expose for that, the bright cloud will be middle gray and everything else will be dark. If you want a highlight to be bright, you have to open up 2.5 stops from it. I'd recommend Ansel Adams' "The Negative" and "The Camera." They're a bit outdated but classic. Get out and practice metering. I prefer incident metering vs. reflective but both have their place.

You can search Amazon or Adorama for wedding photography books. I don't have any in particular to recommend. I don't want to give you one photographer because everyone works differently. Find what works for you. Before you pick a specialty, you have to understand photography in general.

OfMikeandMen · Mar 19, 2013

hirejn said:
You have to understand that the meter is telling you the exposure settings to render the subject middle gray, if you're using reflective metering. So if you meter off a bright cloud and expose for that, the bright cloud will be middle gray and everything else will be dark. If you want a highlight to be bright, you have to open up 2.5 stops from it. I'd recommend Ansel Adams' "The Negative" and "The Camera." They're a bit outdated but classic. Get out and practice metering. I prefer incident metering vs. reflective but both have their place.

You can search Amazon or Adorama for wedding photography books. I don't have any in particular to recommend. I don't want to give you one photographer because everyone works differently. Find what works for you. Before you pick a specialty, you have to understand photography in general.

Hey, thanks for your response. I'll check out those two books. I realize I need to understand photography in general, and I think that's where my dilemma is. I want to learn how to operate a camera properly, I just prefer things that are geared more towards portraiture and wedding photography. That is, instead of looking at stock photo after stock photo, I'd like to understand portraits. But, like aforementioned, I think I need to work on mastering the camera, metering, and light. I just don't know where to move onto after "Understanding Exposure." I feel a little more educated after that book, and definitely understand the basics to f/stop, exposure, and ISO. Especially after discussing it with people and reading around the forums. I am just looking for something that will go more in depth so I can actually begin to master these.

Also, thanks for talking about the middle gray. The 18% finally makes sense. That was one thing that didn't make sense in "Understanding Exposure." So, if I were to measure off, say, the sky instead of a cloud, the cloud would be more white, correct? Or, as you say, open up 2.5 stops from it. Do you have any suggestions on things to meter and take pictures of to measure the difference? Or should I just start shooting literally everything? And, just so I'm sure, reflective metering is metering directly off the subject, and incident metering is based off the light source, correct?

Anyways, again, thanks for your response. I really appreciate the help. I hate being the one who is always begging for answers, etc. I just get that way when I am excited about something and want to do well with it.

Derrel · Mar 19, 2013

Understand that a COLOR-AWARE d-slr light metering "system", like that found in all modern Nikons, can tell that it is pointed at blue sky...by simply measuring the RGB values of the subject area the lens is "seeing", and by comparing the reflectance value of areas of different brightness; this is what Nikon's 3-D RGB Color Matrix light metering is doing...it is "reading" and "interpreting" the scene's reflectance AND the variuos color values using a microprocessor system and a huge,huge library of actual scenes which have been committed to permanent storage in memory. Don't confuse using a single-emulsion (for lack of a better word) d-slr with metering methods learned wayyyy back in the pre-digital era using dumb, color-blind, reflecting light meters and vintage equipment.

I question the wisdom of recommending that book, when it seems to produce so,so many confused readers. Over and over and over and over, over a period of literally years. An old, "dumb" and "color-blind" reflectance light meter measures everything as if it is a neutral GRAY tone!!!! A modern, color-aware d-slr's metering system KNOWS the actual "colors" and the reflectance values of literally hundreds to literally over 2,000 subject areas--in milliseconds.

Metering for B&W negative film, color positive film, color negative film, and digital SLR captures is not quite the same thing. And yet, I read these B.P. analogies that sound right out of the 1970's. You know what? My experience is that Nikon's d-slr light metering is very close to appropriate for "most" subjects with anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 of an f/stop of exposure correction, and seldom any more dialed in. WHY? How could that be? Because it's intelligent, color-aware, distance-aware, analytical light metering designed to properly expose the images made by ONE, SPECIFIC camera model that uses ONE, specific sensor, which always captures in positive image mode ( as opposed to capturing negatives). again, I question the wisdom of using that book when,as I said, it seems to produce many befuddled users in this, the DIGITAL SLR era.

OfMikeandMen · Mar 19, 2013

Derrel said:
Understand that a COLOR-AWARE d-slr light metering "system", like that found in all modern Nikons, can tell that it is pointed at blue sky...by simply measuring the RGB values of the subject area the lens is "seeing", and by comparing the reflectance value of areas of different brightness; this is what Nikon's 3-D RGB Color Matrix light metering is doing...it is "reading" and "interpreting" the scene's reflectance AND the variuos color values using a microprocessor system and a huge,huge library of actual scenes which have been committed to permanent storage in memory. Don't confuse using a single-emulsion (for lack of a better word) d-slr with metering methods learned wayyyy back in the pre-digital era using dumb, color-blind, reflecting light meters and vintage equipment.

I question the wisdom of recommending that book, when it seems to produce so,so many confused readers. Over and over and over and over, over a period of literally years. An old, "dumb" and "color-blind" reflectance light meter measures everything as if it is a neutral GRAY tone!!!! A modern, color-aware d-slr's metering system KNOWS the actual "colors" and the reflectance values of literally hundreds to literally over 2,000 subject areas--in milliseconds.

Metering for B&W negative film, color positive film, color negative film, and digital SLR captures is not quite the same thing. And yet, I read these B.P. analogies that sound right out of the 1970's. You know what? My experience is that Nikon's d-slr light metering is very close to appropriate for "most" subjects with anywhere from 1/3 to 2/3 of an f/stop of exposure correction, and seldom any more dialed in. WHY? How could that be? Because it's intelligent, color-aware, distance-aware, analytical light metering designed to properly expose the images made by ONE, SPECIFIC camera model that uses ONE, specific sensor, which always captures in positive image mode ( as opposed to capturing negatives). again, I question the wisdom of using that book when,as I said, it seems to produce many befuddled users in this, the DIGITAL SLR era.

Is there any book that you would recommend instead based on my prior posts? I am hesitant on making any purchases right now based on the Scott Kelby recommendations and disappointment I've had thus far.