am i wrong?

[Buckster]

There are a ton of good, solid reasons to switch from paper books to electronic.

First and foremost are the overall cost savings to the taxpayers. Updated E-textbook revisions / replacements cost little to nothing, whereas paper textbooks have always costed us WAY too much and have a very limited lifespan. It saves paper. It saves the environment from the chemical pollution that comes out of paper mills. It saves trees. Tests can be done on them and "handed in" electronically, again saving paper costs, copier machine costs, time and money spent by staff to do all the behind the scenes work moving paper around, making copies, reading and grading papers and tests that typically use multiple choice, rather than essay, which can be more quickly and efficiently done by computer, etc., etc., etc.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, but good enough reasons for moving from paper books to electronic devices like tablets.

As for why the school will not accept home machines, I can think of some good reasons for that as well. First, one must consider that the machines will be interfacing with the school's network computers. That brings with it the risks of hacking, virus, etc. I can imagine the possibility that the school's issued devices have safeguards in place to help prevent those kinds of e-threats.

It may also be the case that the school gets discounts or financial help with the devices only by agreeing to buy and use truckloads of them. In order to fulfill that obligation, they find it most useful to limit participation only to those who use the school-sanctioned devices.

These are all questions for the school board however. Only they can provide the exact reasoning behind their decisions, and only then can the parents decide whether they make sense or not, and hence whether to support the current school board members in the next election.

Sorry but I don't think this is a good way to learn

Sorry, but I doubt anyone particularly cares if you think it is or not. Welcome to the future, where digital cameras exist, and so do digital textbooks.

And fat slobs that sit playing with their ipads, roll on diabetes epidemic

Please provide the independent scientific evidence that ipads lead to diabetes at your earliest convenience. Links will be fine.

Not ipads only but it is fact that kids have got lazy with all this technology they just sit in and play games

Interesting... You should relay that to all the photographers who shoot school sports, so they can find something else to do with their time and energy, since they're obviously lying about that. While you're at it, be sure to inform the summer camps, skateboard parks, zoos, scouting organizations, roller rinks, bowling alleys and the like that all those youths found using them for fun don't actually exist.

 

[gsgary]

There are a ton of good, solid reasons to switch from paper books to electronic.

First and foremost are the overall cost savings to the taxpayers. Updated E-textbook revisions / replacements cost little to nothing, whereas paper textbooks have always costed us WAY too much and have a very limited lifespan. It saves paper. It saves the environment from the chemical pollution that comes out of paper mills. It saves trees. Tests can be done on them and "handed in" electronically, again saving paper costs, copier machine costs, time and money spent by staff to do all the behind the scenes work moving paper around, making copies, reading and grading papers and tests that typically use multiple choice, rather than essay, which can be more quickly and efficiently done by computer, etc., etc., etc.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, but good enough reasons for moving from paper books to electronic devices like tablets.

As for why the school will not accept home machines, I can think of some good reasons for that as well. First, one must consider that the machines will be interfacing with the school's network computers. That brings with it the risks of hacking, virus, etc. I can imagine the possibility that the school's issued devices have safeguards in place to help prevent those kinds of e-threats.

It may also be the case that the school gets discounts or financial help with the devices only by agreeing to buy and use truckloads of them. In order to fulfill that obligation, they find it most useful to limit participation only to those who use the school-sanctioned devices.

These are all questions for the school board however. Only they can provide the exact reasoning behind their decisions, and only then can the parents decide whether they make sense or not, and hence whether to support the current school board members in the next election.

Sorry but I don't think this is a good way to learn

Sorry, but I doubt anyone particularly cares if you think it is or not. Welcome to the future, where digital cameras exist, and so do digital textbooks.

And fat slobs that sit playing with their ipads, roll on diabetes epidemic

Please provide the independent scientific evidence that ipads lead to diabetes at your earliest convenience. Links will be fine.

Not ipads only but it is fact that kids have got lazy with all this technology they just sit in and play games

Interesting... You should relay that to all the photographers who shoot school sports, so they can find something else to do with their time and energy, since they're obviously lying about that. While you're at it, be sure to inform the summer camps, skateboard parks, zoos, scouting organizations, roller rinks, bowling alleys and the like that all those youths found using them for fun don't actually exist.

Is that with your blinkers on there are plenty not doing sports

 

[Buckster]

Is that with your blinkers on there are plenty not doing sports

And there are plenty who are, just like there have always been. You think it's somehow a new phenomenon that some kids go in for more physical pursuits while others are into more cerebral pursuits?

Some 40 years ago, long before Ipads or laptops or home computers of any kind, I and many of my peers enjoyed photography, electronics, art, and so on, which had us sitting on our butts quite a bit. Others of our friends tended to more physical things like traditional sports.

You want to pretend that the balance has radically shifted and nearly all of today's youth are spending all their time sitting around with their eyes buried in a screen, getting fat, and getting diabetes.

Too bad you can't actually prove such a myopic, curmudgeonly assertion to be anything more than an opinion by someone who's shown repeatedly that they pretty much hate the modern digital age and everything about it, as evidenced by your attempt to wave away my challenge to support your claim with actual scientific evidence that Ipads lead to diabetes.

You spend most of your time on this forum playing the part of a Luddite, just looking for threads where you can jump in and bash digital cameras in favor of film, knowing it does nothing but get a rise out of some folks. It's apparently your main reason to frequent these boards. In that pursuit of your apparent hobby, this thread was ready-made for you.

Just wondering: Are you under the impression that anyone thinks your anti-modern curmudgeonly attitude is endearing or something?

 

[gsgary]

Is that with your blinkers on there are plenty not doing sports

And there are plenty who are, just like there have always been. You think it's somehow a new phenomenon that some kids go in for more physical pursuits while others are into more cerebral pursuits?

Some 40 years ago, long before Ipads or laptops or home computers of any kind, I and many of my peers enjoyed photography, electronics, art, and so on, which had us sitting on our butts quite a bit. Others of our friends tended to more physical things like traditional sports.

You want to pretend that the balance has radically shifted and nearly all of today's youth are spending all their time sitting around with their eyes buried in a screen, getting fat, and getting diabetes.

Too bad you can't actually prove such a myopic, curmudgeonly assertion to be anything more than an opinion by someone who's shown repeatedly that they pretty much hate the modern digital age and everything about it, as evidenced by your attempt to wave away my challenge to support your claim with actual scientific evidence that Ipads lead to diabetes.

You spend most of your time on this forum playing the part of a Luddite, just looking for threads where you can jump in and bash digital cameras in favor of film, knowing it does nothing but get a rise out of some folks. It's apparently your main reason to frequent these boards. In that pursuit of your apparent hobby, this thread was ready-made for you.

Just wondering: Are you under the impression that anyone thinks your anti-modern curmudgeonly attitude is endearing or something?

I haven't mentioned photography digital or film I just don't think it is good for kids to be only learning on an ipad and becoming dependant on technology to solve a problem

 

[Buckster]

I haven't mentioned photography digital or film

You've spent most of your time and posts on this forum site "mentioning" it and establishing yourself in the way I described. To try to separate that history from the subject of this thread and your responses to it would be truly seeking to view it with blinders on, which I don't care to do.

I just don't think it is good for kids to be only learning on an ipad and becoming dependant on technology to solve a problem

Then why are you asserting that they're all fat, lazy and getting diabetes because of it? No sir, you've been claiming quite a bit more than what you say here and now in this most recent post.

By the way, where do you get "only" from?

Tell me the real difference between reading from an Ipad and reading from a book.

Tell me the real difference between checking a box on a screen and checking a box on a piece of paper.

Tell me the real difference between passing your test forward in the class or hitting "send" to the teacher.

Where's the science, the independent studies, that say one method is less beneficial than the other when it comes to learning? Where's the science, the independent studies, that show that one leads to being fat, lazy and ate up with diabetes, per your claims and assertions?

You don't have any.

Look up the current average weights of teens, and you'll be hard pressed to show that they're "all" or even "mostly" fat, lazy and ate up with diabetes. I just did, spending some time on several different sites to see if anyone had anything Earth-shatteringly different that might support your claims. I couldn't find any.

As for depending on technology to solve a problem, that is the history of mankind. We have ALWAYS depended on the latest technologies to solve problems, be it counting fingers, sticks and clay, beads on an abacus, pencil and paper, mechanical calculator, electronic calculator or now computers including tablets.

Clay tablets, papyrus, ink, goose quills, fountain pens, typewriters, word processors, apps. See how that works?

Crawling, walking, running, riding horses, attaching wagons to horses, using more horses for bigger wagons, bicycles, motorized vehicles, busses, trucks, biplanes, passenger planes, commercial jets, supersonic transatlantic jets, spaceships to the moon and back, international space stations... See how that works?

Swimming, crude rafts, canoes, rowboats, barges, sailboats, schooners, steamships, diesel cargo and passenger ships, nuclear aircraft carriers, submarines. See how that works?

No doubt, in Gutenberg's day, you'd be the guy who says it's somehow wrong to be mass-producing text on pages and full-on books. For you, I'm sure hand-copying is so much better because printing presses don't take as much thought, care, work and time.

It's called "progress", Gary, and nobody cares if you're against it. Stop driving around in powered vehicles and using computers and watching televisions if you're so against progress, but stop wagging your finger at the rest of the world. The only difference between you and everyone else is that you draw the line at a different arbitrary technology point and rail against anything beyond that, which is pretty ridiculous.

Enough is enough, Gary. You don't like modern tech - so much so that you're willing to suspend rational thought and make claims you absolutely cannot substantiate. We get it, okay? Quite clearly, we don't care what you think about it as we continue to progress forward, with or without you.

 

[gsgary]

You said look up the average weight of school children
CDC - Obesity - Facts - Adolescent and School Health

 

[Designer]

Is that with your blinkers on there are plenty not doing sports

Just wondering: Are you under the impression that anyone thinks your anti-modern curmudgeonly attitude is endearing or something?

I wouldn't expect anyone to find it "endearing", but I have pretty much the same impression. Perhaps it is simply a matter of me getting older, but I get the idea that a larger percentage people of all ages are less active than previous generations.

 

[gsgary]

Is that with your blinkers on there are plenty not doing sports

Just wondering: Are you under the impression that anyone thinks your anti-modern curmudgeonly attitude is endearing or something?

I wouldn't expect anyone to find it "endearing", but I have pretty much the same impression. Perhaps it is simply a matter of me getting older, but I get the idea that a larger percentage people of all ages are less active than previous generations.

Not me when you work in construction on a price you are flat out every day

 

[Designer]

Not me when you work in construction on a price you are flat out every day

I've worked construction. I've also done tree work. Believe it or not, I was fairly fit way back when.

I would arise at 5:30, go for a run, then drive to work doing tree work. I was very fit.

I also consumed food or fruit juice nearly all day. I never calculated the calories.

 

[gsgary]

Not me when you work in construction on a price you are flat out every day

I've worked construction. I've also done tree work. Believe it or not, I was fairly fit way back when.

I would arise at 5:30, go for a run, then drive to work doing tree work. I was very fit.

I also consumed food or fruit juice nearly all day. I never calculated the calories.

I can't put any weigh on because I'm having a £1200 Saville Row tweed suit made for my wedding

 

[bribrius]

I haven't mentioned photography digital or film

You've spent most of your time and posts on this forum site "mentioning" it and establishing yourself in the way I described. To try to separate that history from the subject of this thread and your responses to it would be truly seeking to view it with blinders on, which I don't care to do.

I just don't think it is good for kids to be only learning on an ipad and becoming dependant on technology to solve a problem

Then why are you asserting that they're all fat, lazy and getting diabetes because of it? No sir, you've been claiming quite a bit more than what you say here and now in this most recent post.

By the way, where do you get "only" from?

Tell me the real difference between reading from an Ipad and reading from a book.

Tell me the real difference between checking a box on a screen and checking a box on a piece of paper.

Tell me the real difference between passing your test forward in the class or hitting "send" to the teacher.

Where's the science, the independent studies, that say one method is less beneficial than the other when it comes to learning? Where's the science, the independent studies, that show that one leads to being fat, lazy and ate up with diabetes, per your claims and assertions?

You don't have any.

Look up the current average weights of teens, and you'll be hard pressed to show that they're "all" or even "mostly" fat, lazy and ate up with diabetes. I just did, spending some time on several different sites to see if anyone had anything Earth-shatteringly different that might support your claims. I couldn't find any.

As for depending on technology to solve a problem, that is the history of mankind. We have ALWAYS depended on the latest technologies to solve problems, be it counting fingers, sticks and clay, beads on an abacus, pencil and paper, mechanical calculator, electronic calculator or now computers including tablets.

Clay tablets, papyrus, ink, goose quills, fountain pens, typewriters, word processors, apps. See how that works?

Crawling, walking, running, riding horses, attaching wagons to horses, using more horses for bigger wagons, bicycles, motorized vehicles, busses, trucks, biplanes, passenger planes, commercial jets, supersonic transatlantic jets, spaceships to the moon and back, international space stations... See how that works?

Swimming, crude rafts, canoes, rowboats, barges, sailboats, schooners, steamships, diesel cargo and passenger ships, nuclear aircraft carriers, submarines. See how that works?

No doubt, in Gutenberg's day, you'd be the guy who says it's somehow wrong to be mass-producing text on pages and full-on books. For you, I'm sure hand-copying is so much better because printing presses don't take as much thought, care, work and time.

It's called "progress", Gary, and nobody cares if you're against it. Stop driving around in powered vehicles and using computers and watching televisions if you're so against progress, but stop wagging your finger at the rest of the world. The only difference between you and everyone else is that you draw the line at a different arbitrary technology point and rail against anything beyond that, which is pretty ridiculous.

Enough is enough, Gary. You don't like modern tech - so much so that you're willing to suspend rational thought and make claims you absolutely cannot substantiate. We get it, okay? Quite clearly, we don't care what you think about it as we continue to progress forward, with or without you.

I might be a little bit of a luddite too. There are things i have done in relation to this. For instance the kids are growing up with wiki. When i realized my kid didn't know how to look something up in a dictionary a few years ago i started taking some of the electronics away for her home school work on certain occasions. They whined and cried, but had to go look up the words in a actual dictionary. I was somewhat shocked also a few years back that she didnt really know how to write in cursive (least not well). They are growing up typing, electronic age. So i spent some time on that. Despite having a laptop and ipad i still make sure they have a library card. Granted, they hardly ever use it but i think it is important. Suppose, while i think progress is a fact of life, i believe i have a responsibility to make sure it is really progress. She needs to be able to think for her herself and do the work with or without the electronics. And this is where the reliance comes in. While the kids are becoming more reliant on electronics some other things seem to be slipping through the cracks. Just as calculators are great, but i think one needs to be able to do the work out by hand still. But yeah, when i realized she had trouble with cursive and looking things up in a dictionary a few years back (which she fought having to do kicking and screaming since online is easier and so is typing) i kind of realized it may not be all all that great.

I probably have four dictionaries in the house (about a hundred bucks). I didnt have to buy them. we are pretty new age. But i think it is important.

 

[gsgary]

Britain used to big the king of industry, manufacturing made us great now we export sweet FA everyone wants to be in the service industries and bloody IT

 

[pixmedic]

Britain used to big the king of industry, manufacturing made us great now we export sweet FA everyone wants to be in the service industries and bloody IT

the United States used to be the same way.
we USED to be a country of producers....now we are just a country of consumers.

 

[tirediron]

There are a ton of good, solid reasons to switch from paper books to electronic.

First and foremost are the overall cost savings to the taxpayers. Updated E-textbook revisions / replacements cost little to nothing, whereas paper textbooks have always costed us WAY too much and have a very limited lifespan. It saves paper. It saves the environment from the chemical pollution that comes out of paper mills. It saves trees. Tests can be done on them and "handed in" electronically, again saving paper costs, copier machine costs, time and money spent by staff to do all the behind the scenes work moving paper around, making copies, reading and grading papers and tests that typically use multiple choice, rather than essay, which can be more quickly and efficiently done by computer, etc., etc., etc..

I'm not convinced of this. Yes, there will be an initial cost-saving if the school agrees to use Apple products since they will get them at little to no cost (at least for a while), however talking to people I know in the post-secondary education world (yes, I understand that's not what the OP referred to), there hasn't been a great deal of change in the price of e-textbooks vs. paper ones. They're still specialized publications made in limited numbers, and will always cost a lot, and will always have a premium price because students "need" them. As far as the environmental aspect, I strongly dispute that. Having lived on the west coast for 40 years, I've seen many logging operations, clear-cuts mills, pulp plants, etc, and NONE of them can come even remotely close to the degree of environmental hazard posed by third-world electronics recycling, which is done almost exclusively in Asia, and where 90+% of North American consumer electronics go. I'll take a clear cut over a pile of smoulder plastics where iPads have been melted down for precious metal extraction any time.

Leave us also not forget the biggest issue: Schools are doing less and less teaching of the basics. It's all well and good to say, "Technology is the future, teach it!", but you can't neglect the basics. Knowing your multiplcation tables, how to perform basic long division with a pencil stub on a napkin... these are real-world skills, and unlike your iPad, the battery in my pencil has never run down to the point where I can't use it!

 

[gsgary]

I wonder how many know how to use Cosines and Tangents without an ipad