Another lighting questions

[mwcfarms]

Ok guys I need some advice. I did a portrait session of my daughter and my baby sister and have a few people who want me to do some family sessions before christmas. Now I really loved doing this but found myself limited in lighting. It has been suggested that I look into some strobes if its something I'm going to seriously consider. I have flashes atm because of portability and that's what I have learned lighting with. My questions is this, when your looking at lighting should I just bite the bullet and buy something realiable and with a good warranty like Alien Bee's or are cheaper kit packages like Impacts from B&H just as good.

Remember I live in rural AB, the closest camera store only sells 2 different types of light strobes. Aurora and Camray. The camray 150watt one stand umbrella is 450 dollars the aurora's are even more money. Where as I can buy an Impact kit from B&H with 3 lights for 600 or 2 alien bees/stands/softbox for 800. The other thing the impacts didn't have were fans or auto dump. Not sure. So I am looking at ordering from somewhere online. Can anyone give me some direction. I feel like Im a bit lost. I don't want to buy garbage, and I want something relatively easy to learn to use.

 

[tirediron]

Huh... I wonder who'd come up with a damn-fool suggestion like that?

Ease of use will be about the same for all of them; they're lights. Things to look for: Infinitely variable power levels, modelling lights with infinitely variable levels, built-in optical slave (almost all have this), audible "ready" indicator (This is REALLY useful when you're doing more complicated set-ups with several lights at different levels) and easily replaceable (both from acquisition and installation points of view) flash tubes and modelling lights. Auto-dump is definitely an asset, but not essential.

I've never used the ABs myself, but by all accounts they're a very good consumer light. The Auroras are also very good, but pricey. DON'T buy any of those 'no name' inexpensive eBay kits. They're great 'til you blow a flash-tube and People's Strobe Works #6 in Peking won't return your e-mails about replacement parts.

All that to say that out of the choices you've listed, I would probably go with the ABs.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

I agree with tirediron.

ABs are what I push with people who are not going to use strobes day in day out. Not my choice for different reasons but I did get to play with a set of them and they seemed fine. I have read about a color shift but I did not experience it. Overall for the price, they seem pretty decent.

And if you ever get more serious about strobe work and buy better gear, you can always use the ABs as background light where a color shift may not even be noticed. Depending on the background of course.

 

[KmH]

It's hard to beat the portability of speedlights.

If you opt for studio strobes you also have to haul around a 120v AC power source if you're shooting on location.

The AB's are very popular for a couple of reasons. They work and Paul C. Buff maintains great customer service.

 

[mwcfarms]

Ok so one other quick question. Triggering them. Is there another choice other than what his site offers that might be cheaper. Remember for right now I wont be taking them outside on location anywhere just in my at home ghetto studio.

Thank you guys for your very respected input.

 

[Big Mike]

Now I really loved doing this but found myself limited in lighting.

Can you expand on that?

Buying more/bigger/better gear may not be the solution to your problem.

There are a lot of really good photographers doing fantastic work with just Speedlight style flashes.

 

[Big Mike]

Ok so one other quick question. Triggering them. Is there another choice other than what his site offers that might be cheaper. Remember for right now I wont be taking them outside on location anywhere just in my at home ghetto studio.

Most studio lights (AB included) come with a cord to go from the camera to the flash. You only need to trigger one, the others will fire optically from that one. Your camera will need to have a PC flash trigger socket or you'll need a hot-shoe adapter ($20).

You could even use a built-in or camera mounted flash (in manual (no preflash)) but I'd avoid that if possible.

There are plenty of options for cheap radio flash triggers, but they are just that...cheap. I've had a couple of them and eventually went with the Cyber Sync triggers from Alienbee. They work great and are cheaper than the industry standard, Pocket Wizards.

 

[mwcfarms]

With the speelights and a group of 3 or 4 I had a lot of light fall off if that makes sense. I only have the SB600 and reflector and I could get it to work with one person great, even two wasn't bad for headshots. My friend has a family of 6 and I want to be able to light them all. Now all of this could be user error too lol.

Sorry i forgot to quote you Mike lol. But this is in reference to your question.

 

[Derrel]

I say go in between the el cheapo eBay strobes and the Alien Bees and look at the Adorama Flashpoint line of 150 watt-second monolights, which are currently $129 with a monolight/umbrella/lightstand combo. Easily,affordably replaceable flashtubes and modeling lights, and pretty painless pricing. They have two lines now: the older Flashpoint II series, and the newer line that ALSO has a BATTERY-powered option, with an affordable battery option. The AC-only ones cost less than the dual-source ones.

I really,really think that lighting beginners do better with "real" studio lights, that show where the catchlights are in the eyes or on eyeglasses, where the shadow of the nose falls, and how bright/dark the main light side and the fill light side of the face are--BEFORE the shot is made, and continuously during the shoot. Studio flash units also supply light for the AF system to work. Speedlights are fine for experienced shooters, but they give no modeling light to work with, and do not "show" what the lighting effect is.

 

[Big Mike]

Yes, it can be problematic when you are trying to light an entire group with one light.

One solution is to pull the light back, farther away from the group, so that the fall off is more even across the group. This does require more exposure though (more flash power, wider aperture, higher ISO etc). So in this case, a more powerful light might help. But you also have to have enough space to pull the light back, and the light will get harder as it gets farther away from the subject.

Adding more lights can help, but that can also be tricky with a group, especially where there are children who won't sit still or look where you want them to. It is sometimes easiest/best to use even lighting so that all your subjects are exposed properly at the same time...and you can do this with just one light (close to the camera).

 

[Big Mike]

I really,really think that lighting beginners do better with "real" studio lights, that show where the catchlights are in the eyes or on eyeglasses, where the shadow of the nose falls, and how bright/dark the main light side and the fill light side of the face are--BEFORE the shot is made, and continuously during the shoot. Studio flash units also supply light for the AF system to work. Speedlights are fine for experienced shooters, but they give no modeling light to work with, and do not "show" what the lighting effect is.

Good advice from Derrell, as usual.

Although, I have to admit that I either don't use my modeling lights all that much, and when I do, I'm more apt to just take a test shot and view the image on the camera to check for where shadows are falling etc.
Modeling lights had a much higher value when shooting with film.

 

[c.cloudwalker]

Now I really loved doing this but found myself limited in lighting.

Can you expand on that?

Buying more/bigger/better gear may not be the solution to your problem.

There are a lot of really good photographers doing fantastic work with just Speedlight style flashes.

Although that is true, it limits the kind of work you can do or your going to need a few dozens of them flash units. Also, when learning lighting it is much easier with modeling lights which don't exist on flash units. And you're not going to fry a strobe because you are taking too many shots too quickly.

One last positive to the strobes is that you will look a lot more pro. May sound stupid but when I went into weddings I was told to get a MF camera because I wouldn't get too many jobs shooting 35mm, the format every has at home... I got a Hassy because it was the best used deal I found at the time but it sure impressed people and it did get me referrals.

I think strobes will do the same and ABs are not too expensive.

 

[mwcfarms]

I had checked into the Flashpoint ones the other day but they aren't fan cooled and thought that I would need bigger wattage.

You mean something like this Derrel?

FP320MPWK Flashpoint 320M Portrait Wedding Monolight Kit, with Two 320 Monolights, Stands,Umbrellas, Snoot and Carrying Case

But I would probably try to get one of these and another regular light.

http://www.adorama.com/FP320MS2.html

 

[Derrel]

I had checked into the Flashpoint ones the other day but they aren't fan cooled and thought that I would need bigger wattage.

You mean something like this Derrel?

FP320MPWK Flashpoint 320M Portrait Wedding Monolight Kit, with Two 320 Monolights, Stands,Umbrellas, Snoot and Carrying Case

YES, I mean exactly those monolights, the 320 models. Two lights, two umbrellas, two 10 foot stands, and a carry case for $329 US dollars. Yes, two 150 watt-second lights are just about the right amount of power for small-studio portraiture with a modern d-slr; you have all the power you need with their 118 Guide Number in conjunction with a d-slr that has ISO 100 or 200 as the bottom ISO setting!

I use my modeling lights ON all the time, to keep pupils smaller...I do not like the big, black, dialated pupil look of studio work done in dimmer rooms with no modeling lamps on.

Once you have those two lights, you have two affordable monolights to learn with; then, in the future, you can and should, buy one or two more lights of the same power, OR double the power.

Lights work well in half/double power increments. Two 150's, then later a pair of 300's, would make a nice 4-light kit. It would, IMHO, be nice to also have a third light, or even a fourth light. But, you can use a speedlight,or two, + slave trigger system as a third light ,mixed in with two monolights.

I would rather own four, 150 watt-second lights than one,two,or even three 250 or 300 watt-second lights. More individual lights is better than fewer, more-powerful lights, in my book. Fan-cooling is not necessary until you start shooting long, sustained sessions, or have really HOT, high-wattage quartz modeling lamps (like 250- to 300 watt quart-halogen bulbs that are hotter than a Mo-Fo), or use the lights in enclosed softboxes or tightly-enclosed metal reflectors with things like snoots and grids.

 

[mwcfarms]

So I can buy that exact kit with a softbox but its going to cost me 170$ shipping thats US. Or I can get two AB's Softbox and stands for just about the same price. 75$ More.

Adorama with a 24 x 36 Softbox, extra flashtube extra sync cord Infrared trigger for ****s and giggles 620.99

AB 400, & 800 32 x 40 softbox with speedring attatched 678.25

What would you guys do. If the shipping was so retarded this would be an easy one.