Another wedding photography thread...

Discussion in 'Beyond the Basics' started by pgriz, Jun 13, 2018.

  1. pgriz

    pgriz Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Greetings, old friends. It's been a while. Six funerals, 3 cancer diagnoses (and recoveries), 1 new birth, and a few more life changes later... I've been busy. But I'm back to tap into the wisdom of the hive mind of the Photo Forum. My challenge, is that I've been asked to be the "official" photographer for my nephew's wedding. Somehow, his family's admiration of my photography of sunsets, flowers, and various bits and pieces, made them decide that I have the skills to do wedding photography. Despite increasingly forceful attempts to redirect their interests elsewhere, I now have to accept the challenge of doing it, as they have told me that if I don't, there will not be any photographer (other than the ubiquitous cellphone cameras in everyone's hands).

    The additional challenge is that this will all take place outdoors, and from what I've learned of the site, the "inside" is rather dark and poorly lit. So, in preparation, I've acquired a second camera body, some additional flash units, radio triggers, diffusers, a LOT of spare batteries, and will bring with me the umbrellas and light poles that I use for product photography. What I am looking for is some direction with respect to posing, a list of "expected" shots, and other survival suggestions.


     
  2. tirediron

    tirediron Watch the Birdy! Staff Member Supporting Member

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    The bride and groom should give you the list of expected shots. If they're unsure, send them links to a few different wedding photographers so that they can get some ideas. This, along with the posing is going to depend totally on the type of people the couple are. Do they even want 'posed' images, other than a few family group shots? This is a good, 'over coffee' discussion which you should do at least twice. Once to get the ideas in their head, and then a few weeks later to see what they've come up with.

    Weddings, like any other event, are all about the planning. The first thing you need is a schedule of events & locations. Then you need to visit those locations unless you know them intimately already, and examine them for lighting, shooting position, background, etc. MAKE NOTES!!!! If there's a church involved, talk to the officiant, and ensure that photography is permitted and find out what, if any restrictions there are (A number of years ago I was booked to shoot at wedding at an RC church that assumed everyone knew photography was prohibited, but no one told the couple... took a little negotiating to sort that out)..

    Make sure you know where to park, how long it takes to get from 'A' to 'B' (if there are an 'A' and 'B'), and where you're going to be. Develop a shot list; what are the key shots the couple want? Will there be a processional / recessional? A bouquet toss? Ring Exchange or cake cutting? Are there any relatives arriving of particular importance, either because of their relationship or the distance travelled (eg, "Aunt Betty who lives in Outer Gumboot Junction will be here, no one's seen her in 30 years...). Depending on the size of the event, I usually try and meet with the Maid/Matron of Honour in advance and enlist her help as a 'wrangler'.

    Make sure you have a 'wet weather' plan which includes umbrellas (people ones, not light modifiers), camera condoms, and LOTS of clear garbage bags (good for covering gear, sitting on, etc). Make sure you have an emergency kit of lint rollers, combs, safety pins, gaff tape, pocket mirror, etc, and remember.... however prepared you are, you're not prepared enough! ;)

    Enjoy and good luck!
     
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  3. pgriz

    pgriz Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Thank you, John. Very useful. It appears that no church building is involved, but the ceremony (and the reception) will all be done outside next to a lake. Very "country" people. The location is a quiet cottage "resort" owned by the grandparents of the bride. I'm going to drive up there (with some family members, my wife will have been there a week ahead to help pull everything together) a day before the ceremony, so I have very little time to scout out and prepare. As for the list of desired shots, I've asked them that, and they have no expectations (or so they told me). So, I need to be ready with a list to discuss with them once I'm up there.
     
  4. jcdeboever

    jcdeboever TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    I feel for you. I recently got sucked into one. It was in a barn and a few outside. f/4.5, 400 ISO, 1/200, ttl, and + or - EC . flash modifier. They came out pretty good.

    Brought a camera, flash, flash modifier, and tripod. 3 lens, 16, 35, 50-140. used all 3. I ain't posting any though...lol

    they didn't give me a list or anything. I asked. In all honesty, I took my copyright off them and said no referrals please. I hate doing them.
     
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  5. ac12

    ac12 No longer a newbie, moving up!

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    "no expectation"
    Ha. They expect YOU to do all the work for them, and will be upset when you miss a photo. grrrr.
    Looks like you need to look at a bunch of wedding photo sites and few wedding photo books and make up the photo list for them.

    Important, make up the list of formal pictures, and a list of people in each shot, for them to review and adjust and approve.
    This is then your shoot script.
    From this is the list your assistant will use to gather people for the formals.
    That list is the list the couple MUST use to contact everyone on that list to make sure they know to hang around for pictures.

    You WILL need an assistant/"herd dog."
    This is someone to round up all the people needed for the various shots. So they have to know everyone on that list.
    Important to make clear to the couple that, if someone cannot be found, they won't be in the formals.
    There have been cases where Uncle X, went immediately from the wedding to the reception hall, to start drinking.

    Get a few friends to practice shooting a wedding with.

    Here are a few places where I have seen problems.
    • The walk down the aisle.
      • Tip you need someone to release the couples with adequate spacing between couples, or they will stack and you will not get clear individual couple shots.
    • Placing the ring
      • If you and the couple want this shot, you need to be in exactly the right spot and the couple have to hold their hands in such a way that you have a clear shot of the ring being placed on the fingers. They should practice with you, so that you can work out the camera and hand positions.
      • The bride is most difficult, as her left hand is farthest from you, and the ring finger on the far side of the left hand. This is why you need to work out the shot and have them practice.
      • Do some advance practice with a pair of friends to work this out.
    • Formals (pictures)
      • STUDY and PRACTICE how you want to pose the people.
        • I suck at posing people, and this is absolutely the hardest thing for me to do.
      • CRITICAL here is the assistant(s) to round up everyone and get them grouped and ready for the next shot. And for everyone to be there, and not already drinking at the reception (yup seen that).
    • Cake cutting and feeding the cake to each other.
      • You need to practice to figure out where to stand to get what shot, and how to pose the couple.
      • You NEED to direct the bride and groom on this, so that you can get the shot.
      • You NEED the space to get into the proper position to shoot. If guests crowd you, you won't get the shot.
        • Been there, done that, was not happy.
        • Get the shot first, then let the guests take their shots.
          Your assistant will need to hold the crowd back until you get the shot.
    • Bouquet and garter toss.
      • Tip1. Have the groom put a couple dollar coins in the garter to give it enough weight to toss, or it won't go very far. IOW, how far can you toss an unrolled handkerchief . . . not far at all. And have the groom practice tossing it, cuz it isn't as easy as some think it is. I've seen many GOOF tosses with the garter going in many different directions. Outdoors, the wind could be a problem.
      • Tip2. Get a dummy bouquet for the bride to practice tossing. I've seen GOOF tosses here also.
      • Tip3. You may have to set up the bride/groom and the guests/catchers. They need to be at the practiced distance. Too far and the bouquet or garter may fall short.
      • Tip4. First shot, have them pose like they are doing the toss. Then move into position to get the mid-air toss or catch. You need to determine in advance which one you will shoot (toss in mid-air, or the catch), as your flash will not recycle fast enough to get both. If this is outside in full sun, you can probably get both shots.
        • Warning. The catch is totally unpredictable. It can be a clean catch by one person, a scramble by several, the bouquet or garter may fall short or miss, etc. etc.
      • Tip5. Have them wait for YOU to give the OK to toss, so that you are in position and ready to get the shot.
    • Reception tables
      • With round tables, the easiest is to have half the people get up and stand on both sides of the B&G on the other side of the table. Having people turn around in their chairs has them sometimes in strange poses. And if you have to use a flash, the front and back sides of the table are at different distances from the flash so won't get exposed the same.
    Equipment
    • Make a list of everything that you need to take with you. It is too easy to forget something at home.
    • Double check that everything works together like it should. And your backup gear also.
    • Make sure the exposure mode is NOT on Auto, or AF is NOT set for closest subject.
      • Made that mistake at a family party once, right after I got my DSLR. Never again did I use Auto.
      • YOU need to be in control of what the camera focuses on.
    • Outdoor, make sure you are shooting at an adequately high shutter speed to freeze subject motion.
      • In dim light, faster lens or higher ISO.
    • Flash
      • Practice with the flash so that you don't have to think about it when you need to use it.
        • And check that all the flash and camera settings are correct. I got burned here once.
      • You need about 4-7 seconds between flashes to recycle the flash. This time depends on the specific flash and how much power was used in the previous shot.
        • NiMh batteries recycle the flash a lot faster than Alkaline batteries.
      • Follow the KISS principle. Don't make it more complex than it already is.
      • Umbrellas are only practical indoors. Outdoors, the slightest breeze turns them into sails. And they are useless in any wind.
      • Eliminate 'red eye' when you shoot, by adequate separation of flash from lens axis. It does not look right when fixing in post.
        • The farther you are from the subject, the greater the flash to lens distance has to be to eliminate 'red eye.'
      • If the ceiling is low enough and light in color, I like to bounce off the ceiling. If not, direct flash.
    Gud Luk
     
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  6. pgriz

    pgriz Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Thank you, "ac12". The equipment is backed up (two camera bodies), extra flashes, lots and lots of batteries, etc. I've got a good bracket for mounting the flash high above the optical axis, and some practice using it, so red-eye hasn't been a problem (which was the original reason I invested in the bracket). The point about the assistant is a very good one, but I'm not sure who to recruit to carry out that function. I suspect I will rely on my sister-in-law (mother of the groom) to deal with this - she's a take-charge type of person, and she can take some of the responsibility as she's the one who would not accept a "no" from me on taking pictures. Gear list is made, cross-checked. Along with the computer gear to download and process the images on. Everything I'm using I've already used plenty of times, so familiarity with my gear is not an issue. Brain-cramps, however, are an always-present possibility, so I'm relying on putting together a checklist.

    Posing is going to be a challenge for me, as I usually do not shoot formal portraits or formal groups. On the other hand, I have benefited from some tips passed on to me by several photographers on TPF, with the result that my posing was much, much better after. At this point, I'm not too worried. There will be images.
     
  7. tirediron

    tirediron Watch the Birdy! Staff Member Supporting Member

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    And, if the client's not happy, Paul will cheerfully refund their money! :lol:
     
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  8. Designer

    Designer Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    As @ac12 has said, you need an assistant, and I will specify that your assistant should be well versed in photography terminology and practice. Send that person on a photo mission to catch something you will not be able to yourself, and you should expect a decent result. Also, when you want to set up some lighting, you should be able to just tell your assistant to "set the 42" octabox as the key light and a snooted hair light" (for instance) and it will be done, with minor adjustments before the shot. Bonus points if that assistant has actually done some weddings.
     
  9. pgriz

    pgriz Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    Yes, but the non-monetary costs could be much, much more damaging if the extended family decides that I'm deserving of being in the doghouse. However, I've managed to stay the "family history recorder" for at least 30 years now, so I suspect I'll be ok.
     
  10. pgriz

    pgriz Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    As I noted to John (tirediron), I'm the family photographer. Everyone else is using cellphone cameras. So photographic assistance (or knowledge) isn't going to be happening here. What will help, is that my sister-in-law (the one who wouldn't take no for an answer) IS invested in having some good memories after the fact, so I think she'll be motivated to provide the necessary strong-arm persuasion when I need it.

    We'll see. I have some ideas about what the happy couple want, and between them and my wife and sister-in-laws (all very take-charge people), I think we will have a decent set. I do believe in the KISS principle, which has kept me out of serious trouble on many occasions.
     
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  11. TCampbell

    TCampbell Been spending a lot of time on here!

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    There are loads of questions to sit down with the bride & groom & ask in advance.

    Brides fantasize about this day from the point where they're about 2' tall... this is their fantasy day and they have a lot of ideas about what it will look like. It's YOUR job to capture that "fantasy" wedding.

    However... as all things photography... the gorgeous photos don't happen by accident. It's all planning and a willingness of not just the photographer... but also the subjects... to recognize that they have to do their part to make the photos work.

    Throughout the day there can be stress but keep a good mental attitude to keep the moods up ... work with the subjects to keep them thinking happy thoughts, fond memories, humor, etc. If they are in a good emotional place then it comes through in the photos. This means YOU don't want to be an emotional wreck worrying about the photos either.

    I've done a LOT of weddings and most of it is not technically difficult... it's just anticipating "what's coming up next" and "what settings should I be used to capture that?" The camera was always ready for the "next shot".

    Let them know they'll want to set aside time for photos at a few points during the day.




    You'll also need to know their plan for the day... basically the flow (where, when, who, etc.)

    Where is the wedding?
    Is it in a church?
    Have you seen this church and what's the lighting situation at the church (btw, all churches have poor lighting)?
    When and where does the bride plan to get ready?

    Some of the question typically need to be asked without the groom present because superstitious brides don't want teh groom to know anything about the dress. So...

    Will there be a veil?
    Will the dress have a train?

    Brides sometimes want the "getting ready" shots... these are often shots with the brides mother helper her by putting final touches ... putting the veil on, helping with hair or makeup, helping with flowers, etc.

    If there is a train on the wedding dress there are some techniques on how to handle it. We would have the bride face away from the camera, take a few steps, then turn to face the camera and this causes a twirled train in front of the bride. However... we also usually showed the maid of honor how to fluff the dress to get the fabric to lay well for the camera. (The bride will probably NOT want the groom to know anything about the dress... keep that in mind.)

    99% of the time... you aren't allowed to use "flash" during the "official" part of the ceremony. The "official" part typically begins at the point where the priest/minister asks "who gives this woman to be married?" So the walk down the aisle... flash away. But once the bride arrives at the alter and the priest/minister asks that question... no flash from then on.

    But ASK... sometimes the minister doesn't care (they usually do NOT want you to do anything that interferes with the flow of the ceremony). Meaning... you probably can't stand at the alter to take photos during the ceremony, but you CAN stand off to the sides, etc. using a long lens and no flash (so low-focal ratio lenses are your friend).



    You'll want to ask about the details of how they plan to process up to the altar (assuming a church wedding). In my early days, the groomsmen escorted the bridesmaids up the aisle... but that doesn't happen often these days... usually all the groomsmen are waiting at the altar with the groom.

    How many members in the wedding party? You'll want to know that.



    Once guests are seated, the last people to be seated are typically the parents of the groom and the mother of the bride (often the father of the bride is walking his daughter up the aisle). You'll want photos of all of that.



    Tip: YOU will stand roughly 1/2 way up the aisle and ask a guest to make a small space for you to step out of the aisle (into the pew).

    PRIOR to the ceremony (as they are lining up to get ready), let them know where you'll be and tell them that when they see you step out of the pew to get their photo... to have them PAUSE for a moment... until they see YOUR FLASH FIRE TWICE (you'll take TWO photos of EVERYTHING) and then you step aside so they can continue.

    Also... some coaching on how the bride/bridesmaids carry the flowers. You can often get the "nervous" look with the arms having a sharp angle at the elbows as they hold the flowers up near their breasts... you want a "gentle" and "relaxed" angle with the flowers down low. Shoulders relaxed a bit (tell them to take a few deep breaths and let their shoulders settle).

    You'll have a much better "keeper" rate on those shots if they aren't moving when you shoot (so the pause trick works nicely).



    When the bride comes up the aisle, you'll not only get those shots... you'll also turn around to get them arriving at the altar. Remember you can get a few last photos with flash until the ceremony "officially" begins and then quench the flash.





    You'll want to know what special parts of the ceremony will be performed. For example... once upon a time, it was popular to have a "unity candle" (I don't see this too often anymore) ... the parents of the groom lit a side candle, the parents of the bride lit another side candle, the bride & groom used their respective parent's candle to jointly light the main "unity candle". Anyway... the idea is that if they are including any special elements in the ceremony, you'll want to know so you can get those shots.



    The blessing of the rings is usually important and certainly the placing of rings on each other's fingers... and ultimately the "first kiss". You'll want to be in the middle of the aisle for those shots.



    You'll want to know: Will there be a reception line and, if so, where? At the church? At the reception?



    Typically as the bride & groom exit (shots you'll also need to get), IF there is a reception line, then formal photos happen after. But if the reception line is at the reception, then you can start with the formals once the guests have left.

    Those who need to stick around include the wedding party and parents and/or grandparents and immediate family. ASK the couple if there are others who they want included. Usually it's just those I just listed but occasionally there's some close friend who wasn't also in the wedding party already.

    When you start to shoot the formals... a few things to keep in mind...

    #1 Everyone looks better with shoulders roughly 45° to the camera. Standing with shoulders "square" to the camera isn't usually as flattering. Bride & groom typically center and everyone angled toward them.

    #2 No fig-leaf poses (guys shouldn't use their hands to cover the crotch... it's just not a good look. They can let their hands hang to the side... they can put hands in one pocket (often with the thumb out), etc. etc. etc. but avoid the "fig leaf" pose.



    Take the photos of the bride & groom with the BRIDES PARENTS FIRST. That's #1 on the formals list. This is because they are the traditional "hosts" of the wedding reception and if the guests are waiting at the reception hall, the parents need to be finished so they can head to the hall. It's also a good idea to get any grandparents shots.

    After brides parents, brides parents & grandparents, then brides parents WITH grooms parents... you can dismiss (with your thanks for their patience) the brides parents so they can go to the reception. Now shoot the couple with the grooms parents & grooms parents & grandparents. Now you can thank & dismiss them.

    Now you can shoot the wedding party with bridesmaids & groomsmen.

    Finally you can shoot the bride & groom.

    If they hired a limo, you probably want photos of them getting into the limo and a final shot of them "in" the limo.




    Congratulations, you've mostly dealt with the "wedding" part of the day.



    Some weddings have quite a delay between the wedding ceremony and the reception. If this is YOUR wedding, you can consider shooting locations for the time between. We sometimes used a scenic park. Just make sure that if you select a scene ... that you wont run afoul of any rules.



    You want to beat the bride & groom to the hall.

    Depending on how much time you have... SHOOT THE CAKE ... this is not "the" shot for the cake... it's a "safety" shot. I've had weddings where ether (a) the cake wasn't supported well enough and it fell or the more likely (b) children couldn't keep their fingers out of the frosting. You want to get the cake before either possibility can occur.

    ULTIMATELY the better cake shot is taken after the wedding party arrives... you'll borrow the brides bouquet and possible a few of the bridesmaids bouquets and you'll "dress" the table around the cake with the flowers for a better shot.



    Make sure you get the shots of the wedding party arriving.

    At the reception, you'll need to capture a few shots of the bride & groom kissing (as the guests ring the glasses).

    Keep in mind the best man and maid of honor traditionally offer a toast and you'll need those shots (with bride & groom).



    Any shots involving tables of guests look a LOT better BEFORE people eat than AFTER people eat (at which point the tables are a mess). But if you are asked to take shots of tables after... don't be afraid to clear some of the clutter off the table (everything "counts" in photo composition and cluttered messy tables wont do).



    If the wedding has a buffet line, YOU will get in line after the wedding party (never before the bride/groom or their parents) ... but before the rest of the guests... REGARDLESS of what order the tables are called up to eat. There's a good reason for this... The bride & groom wont get much free time but when THEY are eating YOU need to be eating. When THEY are finished, YOU need to be finished.

    If the wedding is at a photogenic location (stately manors, golf clubs, etc.) then it's often a good opportunity get the bride & groom into a gorgeous landscape for some shots.

    Discuss (long before the wedding) the idea of them spending about 20 minutes away from the guests to do this at some point during the reception. Some brides have ideas about shots they want (I had a couple that wanted a shot AT SUNSET (which meant I used my astronomy software to find the precise time & location and pre-scouted to set up the shot.))


    At the reception there will be typically be a few key dance shots you need to get...

    #1 the couple's "first dance" as bride & groom typically opens the dancing part of the evening. You'll need several shots of that.

    One tip on dance shots... as couples dance arm & arm, typically one arm is around each others' backs and the other hands are clasped... I typically "tap" the hands that are clasped and ask them to "pause" for just a moment to get the shot. If they are swaying (and not paused) there's a high chance you'll get a blurry shot.

    For the bride & groom, the dance floor will be empty and you can get several full-length shots as well as some "half shots" (waist-up).

    For everyone else, it's typically "half shots".

    There will also typically be a "father daughter" dance and also usually a "mother son" dance. You need to capture those as well.

    Also capture each of the bridesmaids with groomsmen dancing.

    There may be a bouquet toss and a garter toss.

    For the bouquet toss, take some control here... position the line of eligible bachelorettes where YOU need them with the bride in front so you can get the composition you need (they will all follow your lead when you tell everyone where to stand.)

    For the garter... YOU will grab an empty chair from the nearest table and put it in the middle of the dance floor where YOU want it to be (trust me... everyone will follow your lead again). You will position this so you have a place to shoot with a decent backdrop.

    The garter toss is similar to the bouquet toss... tell the eligible bachelors where to stand so you position the groom and the rest of the guys for good camera composition.

    And then typically the winner of the garter has to put it on the leg of the winner of the bouquet ... and then dance. Al shots you'll get.



    Cake time:

    Once again, you direct the setup... stand to one side of the cake table so you compose the cake with the bride. The groom will be "just behind" the bride with his hand reaching around and gentle resting his hand on the bride's hand to "assist" in the cut. This gets everyone composed in the frame nicely.

    They'll then feed each other a piece of cake (often trying to smash it into each other's face) and THEN they'll kiss (often with frosting still on their faces). Get that shot.



    At this point you've covered most of the necessary shots.

    I never leave the reception without asking the bride & groom if there are any shots they want... shots including special guests (often they'll have childhood friends or family members that don't live nearby, etc, etc. )




    Make sure you have appropriate gear (cameras, lenses, flashes, etc.) and lots of battery power, memory cards, etc. If you have someone who can assist you then that can be a big help (holding off-camera flash, holding reflectors, etc.) If you have any concerns about your equipment, you can certainly rent gear... but rent it to arrive far enough in advance to (a) make sure shipping delays don't ruin the event and (b) you have time to test the equipment to make sure it's all working well, etc.

    LensRentals suggests you schedule the rental to start a few days before so that if equipment arrives damaged from shipping, they still have enough time to over-night you replacement gear.



    Good luck!
     
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  12. JonA_CT

    JonA_CT TPF Supporters Supporting Member

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    Wow, Tim. If I ever had a desire to shoot a wedding, your post would be my first stop. Thanks for taking the time to type and share that.
     
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