Are there any child psychologists or similar experts on the forum?

[nycphotography]

The point of bringing all that up is this--one of the big "points" to their training is: Don't try to make these judgments for yourself. Tell the authorities and let THEM figure it out. Better to speak up, and find out it's just a kid with a wild imagination, than to decide not to make anything of it, and find out later you could have done something to help a child avoid more tragic consequences in life.

Whatever it is, I'd tell an authority and let them sort it out.

While nobody wants to do nothing, I'd suggest you have _some_ moral duty to satisfy yourself that there is something to it before involving the authorities.

Unfortunately, the "authorities" have less and less discretion to do the right thing in cases where there is substantial doubt. In some jurisdictions they are required to take certain actions. If in fact, there was nothing to it, the consequences of those actions would then be very unfortunate.

Nobody wants to let something slide. But you also should want very much to make sure you aren't the one to call in the dogs on the McMartins either.

And for the record, every time I hear a cop say "tell it to the judge" I have the same thought... that cop should be arrested on the spot and charged with molesting children, so he can get his turn to "tell it to the judge".

Just consider all the possible explanations, get as much first hand information as possible, and use the absolute best judgement you can muster. And make sure you will sleep well at night if you call it in. Or also if you don't.

When I say "authorities," I do not necessarily mean the cops. Social services, a school principal if the kids go to school together--someone who, in an official capacity, has the training and experience to deal with such situations and talk to the girls without, as some others have mentioned, putting thoughts and words into their heads so that the story becomes what the adult thinks it is, rather than the actual truth.

Yes, it's good to have SOME idea that there is some truth to the story, but I'd tread VERY carefully about trying to get AT that truth myself.

Can't disagree with any of that. I've just learned to make absolutely certain with ANY authority in ANY context that I can trust them FULLY with something before I show my hand. Then I show them only as much as I trust them with. This seems an all or nothing situation, so for me the bar for trust would be pretty high.

Glad to hear it was "probably nothing".

 

[DarkShadow]

I am a child psychology researcher and have a couple degrees in it.

Are you just trying to figure out if the story is true? If so, obviously there is going to be a significant element of basic detective work, not just child psychology. Especially if there were any adult witnesses to whatever events she is describing in her story or other evidence, then you're probably best off relying on that. It seems like you have come to a similar conclusion yourself. BUT, there are special considerations that you might want to take, if the child's story is truly important in some serious way.


If this is just like "ha ha what a weird story, I'm curious" then okay, whatever, talk to the mom and so forth. Who cares?

If this is a really serious incident though involving something that might end up in legal or child services action or similar, and if the two little girls are the only witnesses, then it is imperative that you not waste any time lollygagging around being polite about it, etc.

Children are extremely suggestible, and it is a trivial thing for a parent or similar to plant false memories or distorted memories in a child's head, even if they don't intend to at all, merely by talking to them about it and asking even the most slightly leading questions in their attempts to make the story clearer. So if something serious relies on the truth of the story, you should avoid prompting the other parent to muddle things by bringing it to their attention before you are prepared, and seek an expert trained in how to interview children without bias as soon as possible, before the girls are exposed to too much uncontrolled external influences. Also probably you should cease talking to your own child about it, unless you are concerned about her being potentially in some sort of trouble. I.e. if you feel that knowing as much as possible before asking for outside help is necessary for you to protect your child as much as possible, then obviously as a parent, go for it. But if she's not in any danger or trouble and you are thus more concerned about the truth, then try not to bring it up anymore if you can.

Excellent Advice.

 

[Gavjenks]

While nobody wants to do nothing, I'd suggest you have _some_ moral duty to satisfy yourself that there is something to it before involving the authorities.

Well yes of course you don't just ship your kids off to social services the moment they ever say "I have a story to tell you!" on the off chance it might be a story of a horrible crime...

Asking a couple of open ended non leading questions is fine. And if you are concerned they might be making it up, perhaps wait a short while without talking about it, and then ask them again later "Can you remind me what you told me earlier?" etc. and if it sounds consistent / they aren't all hopped up on sugar anymore and still give you the same story more or less, and it's serious, then you ship them off to an expert.

Stripping and crying would not be a situation where I would ship anybody off to anywhere or concern myself with corrupting testimony. Kids do things like strip sometimes. Doesn't really hurt anyone, doesn't seem that weird as an isolated incident. Using this as a simple teaching opportunity about not stripping in public seems much higher of a priority than getting all of the facts straight.

Edit: Worst case scenario they were playing some sort of "you show me yours ill show you mine" game and it went awry and feelings were hurt and she made up a story about something else out of embarrassment. Unless one kid was way way older or something, though, that wouldn't be the end of the world. And again, if you question your daughter along that vein, there's a good chance you'd simply coerce her unwittingly into saying that's what happened. Since it really could just be "I want to get my way so ill do something that grabs attention bwuahaha" you don't want to assume or coerce. if you like, just let her know firmly that whatever happened, it's okay to talk about, and leave it at that, I'd say, and not worry much unless again it becomes a repeated trend or she comes to YOU with different details.

 

[manicmike]

JW, I don't know if you got my PM, but from what you described to me, it sounds like a mental disorder.

Child Welfare won't get involved unless another child in the home is in danger or unless they suspect some form of abuse/neglect. If the child is a danger to herself, that's a mental health/law enforcement issue.

 

[Gavjenks]

Diagnosing mental disorders from a single vague incident with many possible causes that no adults witnessed... via the internet... is not really appropriate.

Especially since I have seen no mention of any of the major qualifiers for having a mental disorder:
-harming self or others
-inability to function on an ongoing basis at school or work
-major and persistent social deficits
-a personal belief held by the person themself that theres something wrong with them
-typically at least a 6 month history for most types of disorders

If you dont meet any of those criteria you are very unlikely to have a diagnosable mental illness / disability. And even if you do its not an automatic disability. Just a qualification / red flag. I see no evidence of any of those things here.

Ask your mother if you ever inappropriately stripped in public as a kid out of nowhere and the answer will almost definitely be yes.



If she stripped to get her way AND started screaming gibberish AND pulled her hair out, it might be a different story (still not diagnosing via internets, but I would have advised you to see someone then for self harming)

 

[manicmike]

Diagnosing mental disorders from a single vague incident with many possible causes that no adults witnessed... via the internet... is not really appropriate.

Especially since I have seen no mention of any of the major qualifiers for having a mental disorder:
-harming self or others
-inability to function on an ongoing basis at school or work
-major and persistent social deficits
-a personal belief held by the person themself that theres something wrong with them
-typically at least a 6 month history for most types of disorders

If you dont meet any of those criteria you are very unlikely to have a diagnosable mental illness / disability. And even if you do its not an automatic disability. Just a qualification / red flag. I see no evidence of any of those things here.

Ask your mother if you ever inappropriately stripped in public as a kid out of nowhere and the answer will almost definitely be yes.



If she stripped to get her way AND started screaming gibberish AND pulled her hair out, it might be a different story (still not diagnosing via internets, but I would have advised you to see someone then for self harming)

That's a great generalization you've made. No where did I diagnose her. And if you've read my statement correctly, you would have noticed that we've exchanged PMs. Wouldn't the logical assumption be that maybe there was more shared than a single stripping incident? Either way, I'm not going to continue to argue with someone on the internet.