are we really like this?

runnah · May 15, 2014

Msteelio91 said:
Thank you for reiterating my exact post hahahahaha

You're welcome.

robbins.photo · May 15, 2014

Msteelio91 said:
what about the hospital? they have done nothing for 45 minutes!? Hospital!?

A hospital is still a business. If the person can't pay for their services, they won't offer them up freely.

They do it here in the United States all the time. In fact they have too by law - it's called EMTALA. The Emergency Medical Treatment And Active Labor Act. They cannot refues a person medical treatement in an ER based on their inability to pay, legal status, citizenship, etc. Why do you think your insurance is billed $100 for a tongue depressor when you go to the hospital and get treatment? The hospital has to shift the cost of the folks that don't pay on to those that do to keep the doors open.

Msteelio91 · May 15, 2014

robbins.photo said:
They do it here in the United States all the time. In fact they have too by law - it's called EMTALA. The Emergency Medical Treatment And Active Labor Act. They cannot refues a person medical treatement in an ER based on their inability to pay, legal status, citizenship, etc. Why do you think your insurance is billed $100 for a tongue depressor when you go to the hospital and get treatment? The hospital has to shift the cost of the folks that don't pay on to those that do to keep the doors open.

It's different in France - and I wasn't saying they would refuse to help, I was saying they wouldn't go out of their way.

robbins.photo · May 15, 2014

Msteelio91 said:
robbins.photo said:

They do it here in the United States all the time. In fact they have too by law - it's called EMTALA. The Emergency Medical Treatment And Active Labor Act. They cannot refues a person medical treatement in an ER based on their inability to pay, legal status, citizenship, etc. Why do you think your insurance is billed $100 for a tongue depressor when you go to the hospital and get treatment? The hospital has to shift the cost of the folks that don't pay on to those that do to keep the doors open.

Click to expand...

It's different in France - and I wasn't saying they would refuse to help, I was saying they wouldn't go out of their way.

I guess it varies from facility to facility - I see a lot of folks here in the states who go out of there way to help folks in that situation. I can't speak for France because I haven't been there since the late 80's and even then I was only there long enough to realize that at the time there seemed to be a an overabundance of really snotty waiters in Paris.. lol.

But here in the US at least there are a lot of people who dedicate a lot of time, money and energy towards helping the homeless. Sadly though the biggest hurdle in helping a lot of these folks isn't so much a lack of time, dedication or even so much money, it's that a lot of them really don't want help - at least not the kind of help that should be provided.

A lot of the problem stems from the fact that it is now very difficult here for people with certain mental illnesses from recieving treatment. It was back in the early 60's that congress passed the Community Mental Health Centers Act. The idea was that they would no longer keep patients who needed such care in state institutions but rather build these new Community Health Centers and provide outpatient care for them instead. That way these folks didn't have to be institutionalized against their will.

Looked great on paper - but in reality it was a train wreck. I think less than half of the centers that were supposed to be built were, I don't think any were ever fully funded, and suddenly you've got this huge flood of people that were institutionalized who then weren't and the "alternative" care they were supposed to recieve either didn't exist at all or wasn't available. Since they couldn't be hospitalized without their consent anymore, well you couldn't force them to get help. Homeless population exploded.

Braineack · May 15, 2014

no, I'm a cat person:

Msteelio91 · May 15, 2014

robbins.photo said:
I guess it varies from facility to facility - I see a lot of folks here in the states who go out of there way to help folks in that situation. I can't speak for France because I haven't been there since the late 80's and even then I was only there long enough to realize that at the time there seemed to be a an overabundance of really snotty waiters in Paris.. lol.

But here in the US at least there are a lot of people who dedicate a lot of time, money and energy towards helping the homeless. Sadly though the biggest hurdle in helping a lot of these folks isn't so much a lack of time, dedication or even so much money, it's that a lot of them really don't want help - at least not the kind of help that should be provided.

A lot of the problem stems from the fact that it is now very difficult here for people with certain mental illnesses from recieving treatment. It was back in the early 60's that congress passed the Community Mental Health Centers Act. The idea was that they would no longer keep patients who needed such care in state institutions but rather build these new Community Health Centers and provide outpatient care for them instead. That way these folks didn't have to be institutionalized against their will.

Looked great on paper - but in reality it was a train wreck. I think less than half of the centers that were supposed to be built were, I don't think any were ever fully funded, and suddenly you've got this huge flood of people that were institutionalized who then weren't and the "alternative" care they were supposed to recieve either didn't exist at all or wasn't available. Since they couldn't be hospitalized without their consent anymore, well you couldn't force them to get help. Homeless population exploded.

I agree with what you're saying here. I (not bragging) have stopped countless times on highways to help people stuck on the side of the road. I have also seen others do the same, and more. People that help are out there in abundance, I just think there are certain situations that people get a bad vibe about and keep their distance.

robbins.photo · May 15, 2014

Msteelio91 said:
I agree with what you're saying here. I (not bragging) have stopped countless times on highways to help people stuck on the side of the road. I have also seen others do the same, and more. People that help are out there in abundance, I just think there are certain situations that people get a bad vibe about and keep their distance.

I have to admit I developed a little more cynical view myself after having done a bit of volunteer work here and there, and it opened my eyes to a lot. I guess I can't blame people who don't want to get involved for whatever reason, as for me I guess I just sort of go with my gut and if the situation is such that I think that a person honestly needs my help and it's the sort of help I can offer then I will.

mmaria · May 18, 2014

Something happen that could be easily fitted in this theme...

Two countries here have been through massive floods these past two days. Entire cities are under water (about 6 meters high somewhere) Even though my town has three rivers and numerous streams we went through this pretty well comparing to other cities. We have good protection-trouble with English, hope you know what I'm saying.

Tens of thousands people lost everything or most of their belonging and unfortunately they're revealing victims as the water level goes down. It's haotic.

Reaction, related to topic...

Some people give money, food, goods in order to help. There are huge number of volunteers here now ready to help evacuate people and else...
It's their initial reaction. If you can, help.

Other people, in towns under the water, tripled the price of products in their stores, water, milk, mattresses, blankets etc!!! If anyone asks me, hey should be locked!
Journalists, as bad journalists, are making up the number of victims, officials wont say out loud about the real number because they know they'll produce a larger panic...

and in this situation... trippleing prices when human lives are in question, is crime and I hope those people will be punished somehow...

pgriz · May 18, 2014

And there you have it, the range of human reaction. There are the genuine volunteers, and there are the profiteers. In between there is usually a range of other behaviours as well - the shadenfreund voyeurs, the celebrity volunteers among them. In many countries, there are laws regarding profiteering, but the disruption of social organization by the disaster usually makes enforcement difficult. Profiteers hide behind the idea that "it's only business", but there is a human being on either side of the "business" transaction, and taking advantage of someone's dire straits is a poor excuse for maximizing profit. And yet, there are always a certain portion of the population (any population) who will do this. Disasters pull back the veil that we use to hide from ourselves the nature of humanity.

Raj_55555 · May 18, 2014

No, not everyone!

mmaria · May 18, 2014

Nice video Raj

mmaria · May 18, 2014

pgriz said:
And there you have it, the range of human reaction. There are the genuine volunteers, and there are the profiteers. In between there is usually a range of other behaviours as well - the shadenfreund voyeurs, the celebrity volunteers among them. In many countries, there are laws regarding profiteering, but the disruption of social organization by the disaster usually makes enforcement difficult. Profiteers hide behind the idea that "it's only business", but there is a human being on either side of the "business" transaction, and taking advantage of someone's dire straits is a poor excuse for maximizing profit. And yet, there are always a certain portion of the population (any population) who will do this. Disasters pull back the veil that we use to hide from ourselves the nature of humanity.

I'm watching news all day and there are more people who want to help than the other kind. Other countries involved and the're sending people, equipment and food. Politicians are still united, because it is a really difficult situation...

When this is all over we will have politicians all over media, celebrities and such. Profiteers are there in every stage of any disaster...from the beginning to the end.

You said everything in a much better way than I did

AlanKlein · May 18, 2014

People passing after the initial fall assume it's a drunk sleeping it off. If you notice, there's usually more reaction from the people who see the initial fall and assume the guy got sick or something. Then they help.

Also, with the advent of cell phones, people often just call 911 to let the police handle it, whatever "it" is.

I just saw a news spot on TV about a woman who fell off the subway platform. Three or four people jumped down to save her before the train came. I will admit that it appeared that the first guy whose action encouraged the others to jump down. People often don't take the initiative and wait to follow leaders.